Wife wants J frame Smith w/X,X,X. Which one??

[Tallbald]

I left my loving wife alone at Cabela's gun counter the other day while she tried on personal protection handguns with only the counter man's help. She likes the hammerless Smith J frame.I prefer a no-lock version. We both prefer stainless. She wants .38 Special +P (good because I reload and cast for that).
I thought I'd browse the Smith website and there's a bewildering array of J frames to choose from. I wanted her to see her options.
What's the difference between the 442 and 642 basically? The alloy frame of the 442?
SO to get a no-lock, stainless and alloy, hammerless or concealed hammer Smith .38 Special +P, what are the model numbers please?
She's asked me to help her research her choices or I wouldn't be doing this. Last Smith I owned was pinned, back in the 70's. I can talk Rugers. Sort of overwhelming on Smith's site.
Thanks. Don

 

[jrdolall]

My wife got the 642-Airweight with laser for an anniversary present a while back. It is pretty brutal with +P ammo.

 

[WardenWolf]

My honest opinion? Skip the J-Frames. They've got awful recoil, at least unless you put a Hogue boot grip on them, and most have awful triggers, particularly the older ones. You're better off going with a Ruger LCR or a .38 SP101 (yes, they exist). In terms of firepower, though, she'd be even better off with one of the rare 9mm SP101's, though, like this one: http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=542879631

 

[Screwball]

What's the difference between the 442 and 642 basically? The alloy frame of the 442?

They are both alloy frames...

The barrel and cylinder on the 642 are stainless.

The barrel and cylinder on the 442 are carbon steel.

Frames are alloy, just different colors to match.

To get a stainless no-lock, you want a 642-1. Here is mine...



Plated in NP3 Plus, and I also have a conversion cylinder in 9mm. I have an Apex spring kit, as well.

In regards to recoil, it is very subjective. I've been shooting .44 Magnum since I was 12, so I have no issue with recoil of .38 +P out of an Airweight. 9mm feels even lighter to me. All snub revolvers are hard to shoot and require practice on the shooter's part. When I first converted my 642, I had a R/O that decided he would "teach" me how to shoot it. Had to be his first time shooting one, as he got a 6" group at 15 yards (one missed the paper completely, so group may have been larger). After that, I did a 2" group in the center of the target...



I've been shooting that 642 for years, in both practice and qualifications. When that above instance occurred, I didn't shoot the gun for a few months due to fitting the new cylinder. As with regular shooting, shooting a snub is a perishable skill. It was evident the first cylinder or two out of it. By the third cylinder, I was getting back into it... as that 2" group was my ninth/final that day.

I say that in regards to WardenWolf's recommendation of Rugers. Doesn't matter if you get a 642, 340PD, 640, LCR, SP101, or whatever else... if you aren't going to train with it, might as well go with a Shield or other single stack 9mm. Getting a LCR isn't going to be any better than a 642. Getting used to whichever gun you pick is how you get better. [emoji6]

 

[pittpa]

LCR weighs maybe 12oz, so 38 +P may be uncomfortable or painful for her. It's one thing to be comfortable with recoil, but some of these guns are painful. My 11 oz 340 PD cuts my finger if I shoot 357 out of it. Smith 642/442 is about 16 oz, enough to make a difference in recoil, as my friend's 9mm LCR at 17oz is more comfortable with a hot 9mm than my 340 with 38+P. Smith model 60 Ladysmith is a 357 at 21.5 oz, which should be real comfortable to shoot 38+P from. The 640/649 357 go at 23oz. More weight, less recoil. Her choice, as far as how much weight to carry or recoil to endure. Recoil also affects followup shoots, no small consideration.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

The Airweight is a 15oz .38 Special +P and the Aitlite is a 12/13oz .357 Magnum.

Lightweights with no hammer are the M642 in Silver and the M442 in Black, both are available with or without a lock. I carry a no lock M442 daily.

If the recoil from a very light revolver is too much to handle there are all steel versions that weigh 23oz bad are chambered in .357 Magnum. I also have a M640 that I sometime carry too. I don't recommend a 12oz Airlite, the recoil is uncomfortable and will probably discourage practice.

 

[bannockburn]

A couple of years back my friend's wife was looking to get her CCW license but didn't like any of the guns her husband had, including a Taurus Model 85. I found her a S&W Model 638 with a 2 1/2" barrel and bought it for her because money was pretty tight for them at the time and they couldn't afford another gun. She really liked the extra weight of the longer lugged barrel along with the additional sight radius that it provided.

 

[mr wack]

The wifes 642-2 is understandably stout with the +p but she likes shooting 38 standard cartridge,,,,

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[WardenWolf]

LCR weighs maybe 12oz, so 38 +P may be uncomfortable or painful for her. It's one thing to be comfortable with recoil, but some of these guns are painful. My 11 oz 340 PD cuts my finger if I shoot 357 out of it. Smith 642/442 is about 16 oz, enough to make a difference in recoil, as my friend's 9mm LCR at 17oz is more comfortable with a hot 9mm than my 340 with 38+P. Smith model 60 Ladysmith is a 357 at 21.5 oz, which should be real comfortable to shoot 38+P from. The 640/649 357 go at 23oz. More weight, less recoil. Her choice, as far as how much weight to carry or recoil to endure. Recoil also affects followup shoots, no small consideration.

I've shot an LCR with regular .38 Special. It was perfectly pleasant because Ruger includes a good rubber grip. The same cannot be said of my mother's Model 38 Airweight with the stock grips. It was downright painful. But after installing a Hogue boot grip it was like a new gun. The trigger's still bad, though. Ruger just makes a better gun here. Keep in mind that Ruger extensively tested the LCR with women in mind. They designed the trigger to be perfectly pullable by female hands. Sometimes a fresh look and a fresh design is better than basically rehashing the same gun that's been made for decades.

 

[Drail]

As an NRA instructor who has taught lots of women - my two cents. The alum. frame J frames are wonderful to carry all day and are NOT fun to shoot and MUCH harder for most people to hit with and they are a great way to learn to flinch. Steel is much better - if she can deal with the added weight (she can..). Forget about +P ammo. You don't need it. A standard 140 to 158 gr. load is absolutely sufficient if she can place the shot where it needs to go. If she can't then +P ammo isn't going to help at all. That is very important to remember. If at all possible she needs to fire any gun she is considering before she gets too hung up on it how it looks or feels in her hand. My wife has been carrying a steel J frame for 25 years and loves it. She carries a 140 gr hard cast SWC load. The Ruger SP 101 is one of the best carry revolvers on the market. It's not lightweight but is very easy to shoot. If she does not enjoy shooting her carry gun she will tire of it very quickly and develop bad habits. Does she plan on carrying this gun or just keeping it at home?

 

[rdrancher]

I left my loving wife alone at Cabela's gun counter the other day while she tried on personal protection handguns with only the counter man's help. She likes the hammerless Smith J frame.I prefer a no-lock version. We both prefer stainless. She wants .38 Special +P (good because I reload and cast for that).snip

In bold lies the first problem. Why do these guys keep pushing the light little revolvers on first timers and women? "It's so little, cute and easy to hide." What they should be telling them is that it's not a gun for beginners. It just may sting your hand, smack your knuckle and you'll never touch it again.

 

[jrdolall]

I have a female friend with zero knowledge of firearms that went to a local Range/Store and was convinced to buy a DB-9 because of how lightweight it is. The clerk then sold her two boxes of ammo, one FMJ and one HP. Both types of ammo were .380.

 

[mavracer]

Take her to a range and let her shoot one first as others have said 38+p is stout from a 15oz snub. She might be better off with a 640.

 

[WardenWolf]

I have a female friend with zero knowledge of firearms that went to a local Range/Store and was convinced to buy a DB-9 because of how lightweight it is. The clerk then sold her two boxes of ammo, one FMJ and one HP. Both types of ammo were .380.

Just as well they weren't 9mm. It probably would have broken within the first two boxes. I hope you convinced her to get a better gun. They really are that bad. Never heard of one go more than 200 rounds before breaking.

 

[Drail]

Some of them gun store counter guys are worse than any used car salesmen. (I can say that only because I worked behind the counter for a while).

 

[WestKentucky]

J frames pack a wallop unless shooting a light 38 spl unless you find an older 30-1 or 31. Not ideal for carry, but great shooters with essentially no recoil.

 

[Tallbald]

Thank you all so very much. I reload light rounds of 125-140 cast over small charges of Trail Boss for practice and fun. Putterbutt loads. Commercial reduced recoil rounds would likely be the daily carry fodder though. I'm going to leave her purchase decision to her, and she wants to trade one of her old style Ruger Chargers toward the new revolver. Decision is hers, just as I would not try to choose a bra for her daily comfort (fun and frolic would be a different matter altogether-grin).
I really appreciate folks here clarifying the selection so much. Don

 

[WardenWolf]

Well, Tallbald, I'd at least encourage her to look at other options, even if it's ultimately her decision.

 

[Drail]

If you can find some 140 - 150 gr. bullets load them to 800 to 850 fps. That's plenty of cowbell for a J frame. See if she can hit on demand with that load. If she can she should carry that. All of us here would be more than happy to help a lady select a bra.......

 

[jrdolall]

Just as well they weren't 9mm. It probably would have broken within the first two boxes. I hope you convinced her to get a better gun. They really are that bad. Never heard of one go more than 200 rounds before breaking.

I actually have two DB-9's that have been perfect but mine aren't purple.
She has shot a lot of my guns now and is currently using an older Bersa Thunder for HD which was the original idea when she got the DB-9. At this point she shoots it better than any of the full size semi's I have but she has been working with a couple of 9mm's. She does not have a carry permit yet but is working towards getting the confidence required.

 

[pittpa]

The Speer 135 grain Gold Dot Hollow Point may be close to Drail's load, although it was designed to make at least 860fps out of a snub barrel, as it is designed to expand at that velocity. It has an extra section in the tip (7 instead of 6). I'm going to get some and chrono that to make sure. If that recoil is acceptable, that would make a great carry load, and should be easy to reload to duplicate with another bullet for practice. But it is +P.

 

[Master Blaster]

Look at the all steel 640 or a 36. The extra weight will mitigate the unpleasant recoil.

 

[surjimmy]

S&W Model 38, shrouded hammer but gives you the option of DA/SA

 

[ThomasT]

I cast a 124gr 9mm bullet from lee molds and sometimes load those in 38 cases to about 800fps. They are pleasant to shoot and are plenty accurate from a snub. Here is a link to a place that has the best prices I have seen on the airweight smith revolvers.

http://www.keelyarms.com/category_s/1863.htm

I don't know if you would be able to find one but the S&W 32 mag airweights are great carry guns and only weigh 15oz loaded. I love mine. It will never be for sale. Mine is the exposed hammer model 431PD. The 432 is the hidden hammer like on the 442/642 guns.

As soon as some cash is a little more available I plan on getting a 442 just because I like 38s so much.

 

[Drail]

If you don't want to handload it the Speer 135 gr. Gold Dot load fits the bill perfectly for carry use and limited practice (after she gets proficient with moderate loads). Good suggestion, thanks.