megatronrules
Member
Are my glocks affected? They where made a while ago 1987 for the g17 and 94 or 95 for the g26. Or is thie simply for new guns?
Will Glock/USA recover from their PR nightmare?
- Thread starter Zander
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denfoote
Member
So Dean,
What you are really saying is that Glock should be forced out of business either by special legislation or massive law suits and every one of the ubiquitous examples of their product should be confiscated and destroyed, simply because of a manufacturing screw up???!!!!!
The tenor of your posting, along with other writings of yours, which I have read, leads me inescapably to this conclusion. It is well known that you are, to say the least, not a friend of Glocks. I just want you to make clear what your real philosophical intent here is. I am not prepared, nor do I have the time or patience to engage you in any sort of debate on the merits of the pistol line.
I just want a clear statement, free from Orwellian double speak of what your position is on the subject. Do you think Glock Inc. needs to die?????
What you are really saying is that Glock should be forced out of business either by special legislation or massive law suits and every one of the ubiquitous examples of their product should be confiscated and destroyed, simply because of a manufacturing screw up???!!!!!
The tenor of your posting, along with other writings of yours, which I have read, leads me inescapably to this conclusion. It is well known that you are, to say the least, not a friend of Glocks. I just want you to make clear what your real philosophical intent here is. I am not prepared, nor do I have the time or patience to engage you in any sort of debate on the merits of the pistol line.
I just want a clear statement, free from Orwellian double speak of what your position is on the subject. Do you think Glock Inc. needs to die?????
Peetmoss
Member
megatronrules
It appears that only Glocks manufactured between September of 2001 and May of 2002 are effected by the frame rail problem.
It appears that only Glocks manufactured between September of 2001 and May of 2002 are effected by the frame rail problem.
tomkatz
Member
on glocktalk the lists of affected guns compiled by users of these guns are there for anyone to see, and if you call glock they will tell you if it is an affected serial #, if this is a cover up it is the most pitiful attempt at one I've ever seen. And yes, this has been absolutely beaten to death on TFL....tom
MountainPeak
Member
- Joined
- Dec 27, 2002
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- 784
I own a G22 and a G20. Both have been reliable, accurate firearms. The only time I was disgusted with them was after reading, as I remember, their 2000 GT annual. They had a big production article bragging about the new program for ballistic finger printing. I wrote 3 seperate letters asking them how it would reduce crime and wouldn't it in effect set up a registration data base? No answer from them, no more Glocks for me! P.S. I never will buy another one because of the lack of response. Two of my three letters were sent certified. They got them, but I guess I didn't warrant a response!
MountainPeak
Member
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- Dec 27, 2002
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- 784
It is true the Glocks that were failing were from an E serial numbered lot over a few month period. I have personal knowledge that they corrected the problem for bulk purchasers quickly. I also have knowledge that their original estimated failure rate, due to a rail not rounded properly was B.S.. They first put out an estimate of potential failure at 1 in 10,000-25,000. My first hand info.(that I believe) was 6 out of 450. You do the addition and believe what you want. Originaly their response was if you were not LEO or PRO-security don't worry, wait until it breaks and we will replace it free. A real god damn comfort for someone that is using it to protect themselves and family. They have of course backed off on that crap now. Once again, I am not a Glock hater, but I hate corps. that try and hide when a mistake is made. Thought I would edit to add this. My G22 has close to 8000 rounds through it with ZERO malfunctions. That's right not even a bad primer misfire! Full disclosure on my part, but I still don't like how they mealy mouthed my requests about BFP or tried to make light of their sharp rail problem. I will now shut up!
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Oh boy, this again. I own two Glocks under the recall. When and if they break Glock will replace the frame. Glock will replace the frame now if I choose, but frankly I am not that excited about the problem. I'm just gonna keep shooting them and enjoying them.
Schuey2002
Member
As Mal H once said over on TFL,
Dean Speir
Member
Then may I respectfully suggest that what time you do have, denfoote, be spent on remedial reading instruction. You've made at least two presumptions which are in no way supported by any factual evidence. (Here's a clue about one of them.)
So start with freeing yourself of your preconceptions and then re-reading what I actually wrote.
So we see… but not your contentiousness.
denfoote
Member
Like I said, Dean, I have neither the time nor the inclination to engage in your Orwellian semantics games. I asked you a simple question, which was "Do you think that Glock Inc. should die??" A simple yes or no answer was what I was looking for!!! You have at least answered it in part by your muddled non answer. I have no more time to spend on you. :banghead:
Dean Speir
Member
Excellent decision…
…it's a wise man who realizes when he's been called on his B.S., takes his lumps and scurries away.
…it's a wise man who realizes when he's been called on his B.S., takes his lumps and scurries away.
mjustice
Member
Glock will recover, but it's because they don't rely on civilian sales to pay the bills. The LEO market continues to be the "breadwinner" for this company.
As long as they continue to fix what they break, they'll never go out of business.
MJ
As long as they continue to fix what they break, they'll never go out of business.
MJ
duncan
Member
I appears as if some of us do not own Glocks or visit another fine forum called GlockTalk.
There are published lists of the affected serial numbers over there. One call to the factory and you can send it in for a replacement. May take a couple of weeks but they are honoring their word.law enforcement agencies are getting their frames replaced first for obvious reasons.
Couple of upset people. True. Glock Inc. is not perfect. never seen any company that was. But they are keeping their word and their warranties.
Those with only one CCW gun, their Glock. But as with most shooters, come on, who doesn't have several. Or a couple of safes full? No problems.
Glock has an unwritten practice to treating people well. Several guys over at GlockTalk blew up their Glocks trying to hotrod some handloads. Glock replaced their guns at cost. Talk about some happy guys. They live in the real world and want to keep folks happy.
I can tell you of many other people who Glock has treated very very well.
I bought a 10mm Glock 20 used about 6 years old. Was getting 4 inch groups at 15 yards compared to my normal 2 inch groups at 25 yards offhand. Glock had upgraded the barrel to the 10mm Glocks a couple of years after my Glock was manufactured. They sent me a brand new factory barrel in exchange for my old barrel - free. Now I have great accuracy and all I had to do was spend $4 to send them the old barrel. Not very many gun manufacturers would do that.
Another time I bought a Glock 17 police trade in and it had an old extractor on it. I called and they sent me a brand new extractor - free. It's how they do business that develops that loyalty you see in Glocksters
So no PR problem. People just waiting.
There are published lists of the affected serial numbers over there. One call to the factory and you can send it in for a replacement. May take a couple of weeks but they are honoring their word.law enforcement agencies are getting their frames replaced first for obvious reasons.
Couple of upset people. True. Glock Inc. is not perfect. never seen any company that was. But they are keeping their word and their warranties.
Those with only one CCW gun, their Glock. But as with most shooters, come on, who doesn't have several. Or a couple of safes full? No problems.
Glock has an unwritten practice to treating people well. Several guys over at GlockTalk blew up their Glocks trying to hotrod some handloads. Glock replaced their guns at cost. Talk about some happy guys. They live in the real world and want to keep folks happy.
I can tell you of many other people who Glock has treated very very well.
I bought a 10mm Glock 20 used about 6 years old. Was getting 4 inch groups at 15 yards compared to my normal 2 inch groups at 25 yards offhand. Glock had upgraded the barrel to the 10mm Glocks a couple of years after my Glock was manufactured. They sent me a brand new factory barrel in exchange for my old barrel - free. Now I have great accuracy and all I had to do was spend $4 to send them the old barrel. Not very many gun manufacturers would do that.
Another time I bought a Glock 17 police trade in and it had an old extractor on it. I called and they sent me a brand new extractor - free. It's how they do business that develops that loyalty you see in Glocksters
So no PR problem. People just waiting.
duncan
Member
For my knothole, the law enforcement market is only perhaps 20 percent of Glock USA's overall business.
In the half dozen gunshops I frequent, they guys are selling 100 plus Glocks a month, every year. That adds up some serious numbers and considering civilians tend to own two and three Glocks, it starts to exponentially surpass law enforcment sales. Especially when you consider most agenices only buy 50-100 guns every six years. How many guns have you bought and sold and traded in six years - as a civilian?
And considering the Glock 36 which was designed for the civilian CCW market, I think Glock's real cash cow is the civilian market. Cops get a healthy $100 kncoked off of each Glock they buy at a minimum.
So I think some of the analysis may not be accurate here . . .
In the half dozen gunshops I frequent, they guys are selling 100 plus Glocks a month, every year. That adds up some serious numbers and considering civilians tend to own two and three Glocks, it starts to exponentially surpass law enforcment sales. Especially when you consider most agenices only buy 50-100 guns every six years. How many guns have you bought and sold and traded in six years - as a civilian?
And considering the Glock 36 which was designed for the civilian CCW market, I think Glock's real cash cow is the civilian market. Cops get a healthy $100 kncoked off of each Glock they buy at a minimum.
So I think some of the analysis may not be accurate here . . .
RoyRapoport
Member
- Joined
- Jan 6, 2003
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- 24
Glock will, quite easily, recover from this PR fiasco. How do I know?
How about this: I have a friend who is, pretty much, one of the most politicized people I know. He HATES giving money to companies he thinks screw the consumer. He was recently in the market for a new handgun and decided to go for the G22 because of a whole bunch of features the G22 had that most other makers' guns did not have (caliber interchange capability, significant parts overlap with my two G17s, etc). Of course, we did call Glock from the gun store to verify the serial number.
I wanted to get one more gun before CA's new 1/1/2003 laws. When I researched the options I had, I found that basically there was something wrong with almost all companies:
Glock: This non-recall recall fiasco;
Kahr: Poor customer service and machining marks on their fairly expensive guns;
S&W: Good guns and customer service but really, I'd rather not give my money to people who stab me in the back;
Kimber: Great customer service which you'll need because they use crappy MIM parts and I saw way too many people posting "so my safety snapped off the other day" sorts of posts.
In the end, I've chosen to be somewhat philosophical about this recall issue -- I don't see Kimber recalling their guns because they know their small parts have a tendency to occasionally snap. The thing that really burns me is the fact that Glock's service ends up altering your SN which means you have to go through a new registration cycle in CA.
But unfortunately, I think that most of the big gun companies are not all that great to give money to. I ended up going with a Kahr, but justified it to myself by paying $200 less than retail and purchasing it used -- so the money wasn't going to Kahr.
-roy
How about this: I have a friend who is, pretty much, one of the most politicized people I know. He HATES giving money to companies he thinks screw the consumer. He was recently in the market for a new handgun and decided to go for the G22 because of a whole bunch of features the G22 had that most other makers' guns did not have (caliber interchange capability, significant parts overlap with my two G17s, etc). Of course, we did call Glock from the gun store to verify the serial number.
I wanted to get one more gun before CA's new 1/1/2003 laws. When I researched the options I had, I found that basically there was something wrong with almost all companies:
Glock: This non-recall recall fiasco;
Kahr: Poor customer service and machining marks on their fairly expensive guns;
S&W: Good guns and customer service but really, I'd rather not give my money to people who stab me in the back;
Kimber: Great customer service which you'll need because they use crappy MIM parts and I saw way too many people posting "so my safety snapped off the other day" sorts of posts.
In the end, I've chosen to be somewhat philosophical about this recall issue -- I don't see Kimber recalling their guns because they know their small parts have a tendency to occasionally snap. The thing that really burns me is the fact that Glock's service ends up altering your SN which means you have to go through a new registration cycle in CA.
But unfortunately, I think that most of the big gun companies are not all that great to give money to. I ended up going with a Kahr, but justified it to myself by paying $200 less than retail and purchasing it used -- so the money wasn't going to Kahr.
-roy
mjustice
Member
duncan, can you provide some backup to this statement? I've always been under the impression that the exact opposite is true.
MJ
Zander
member
Haven't heard of any non-LEO civilian getting that sort of turnaround time. Lately, Glock has been saying months, not weeks.
Let me see if I can rephrase the question.
Let's presume you have a Glock to sell. You know that it is on the "recall" list. Do you tell any potential customer?
Are you honest enough to tell anyone who might purchase your pistol that it is at risk of failure, no matter how slight the possibility? Or do you just sell it, knowing that the customer is "bound" by caveat emptor?
Inquiring minds want to know...
RoyRapoport
Member
- Joined
- Jan 6, 2003
- Messages
- 24
I, for one, would be extremely explicit about the recall situation. I still think of this community as a group of people I'd hate to see screwed.
-roy
-roy
Betty
Member
In a private sale, I would feel the seller should be morally responsible enough to tell the buyer - "do onto others". But of course, private sales are "caveat emptor".
In a retail sale, the retailer should tell the buyer, or return the product back to the manufacturer for repair or replacement. I don't know the law on this matter, but retailers should not sell products that are known to be defective. Dad's had a few recalls on items ranging from space heaters to other hardware items in his hardware store, and tries to track down the customers who have bought these items, or post a notice in the newspaper on on the front door.
Tamara
Senior Member
Zander,
Were I still behind a counter, you'd better believe I'd've called Glock and checked the serial # on every gun in the case.
If the boss didn't like it, I'd bail. I don't participate in unethical business.
Were I still behind a counter, you'd better believe I'd've called Glock and checked the serial # on every gun in the case.
If the boss didn't like it, I'd bail. I don't participate in unethical business.
sm
member
I must have also attended the same school of ethics and ideas as Runt and her dad. If I tell the truth, I ain't got to remember a lie.
SkySlash
Member
I've got 1000+ rounds from various manufacturers of various grain JHP, both +P and +P+, and 5000+ rounds from various manufacturers of various grain FMJ 9mm through my Glock 26, and I have never had a FTF, Mis-feed, or jam of any kind.
I've had those problems with other guns, including Glocks, and I sold them. If I find a gun as reliable as my G26, I keep it and carry it, if not, I sell it and never look back.
I'll never carry a gun I don't trust implicitly, and I'll never keep a gun I won't carry.
I don't care who makes it. If a gun fires 1000+ rounds of my flavor without a hiccup, and I like the way it handles, then I trust it, and the manufacturer or their problems with their other guns is irrelevant to me.
-SS
I've had those problems with other guns, including Glocks, and I sold them. If I find a gun as reliable as my G26, I keep it and carry it, if not, I sell it and never look back.
I'll never carry a gun I don't trust implicitly, and I'll never keep a gun I won't carry.
I don't care who makes it. If a gun fires 1000+ rounds of my flavor without a hiccup, and I like the way it handles, then I trust it, and the manufacturer or their problems with their other guns is irrelevant to me.
-SS
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