Will NATO ever go with .45 ?

[Irfan]

What do you think, will NATO ever go with .45 caliber as their standard pistol round instead of 9mm?

 

[rocky branch]

Nevah hoppen.

 

[jakemccoy]

Why would they?

 

[ArmedBear]

I don't believe NATO takes a pistol seriously as a fighting weapon, except for Special Forces applications -- where other calibers besides 9mm can be found anyway.

 

[mljdeckard]

I know everyone SAYS we use the rounds we do to conform with NATO, but there is also precedent where we have told NATO to go pound sand. We got them all to switch to 7.62x51, and then almost immediately we dropped it to use 5.56 in the M-16. They took DECADES to catch up, and I don't blame them.

Handguns are much less consequential in the strategy of war, and I honestly think we will continue to do what we want to, which in this case is stick with the M-9 and M-16/M-4 for general issue, and give specialized units discretionary funds to acquire and use their own weapons.

 

[CWL]

Why? What would justify the need?

NATO is made up of 28 member countries plus several more on the waiting list. Of these countries, only the USA uses .45ACP -AND even the US military doesn't issue .45ACP pistols as standard weaponry.

You may not understand this, but pistols are so low on the list of important items for a modern army, that any caliber pistol would work for a sidearm.

 

[R.W.Dale]

I agree that it'll never happen.

Other than a few limited applications the military handgun is largely a symbolic weapon much like the officers sword.

Today we have PDW's to take the place of the sidearm

 

[Duo]

we used the .45 caliber pistol shortly after the M1911 was invented up until the mid-late 80s early 90s they probably had a good reason to switch to the lighter caliber.

actually i think the reason they gave was ammo capacity. their justification was that at the range where a pistol would be used a soldier should be able to get them in the head or heart with relative ease. ie 15 dead enemy per mag instead of just 7. the point of the swich at the current point is meaningless, word around the campfire is that the military buys the cheap Beretta mags that jam all the time

 

[herkyguy]

Bring your own .45 if you feel the need. Tuck it in your bag and when things start looking bad for the home team, reach for your trusted caliber and fight. As the smoke settles, just claim that you 'found' the gun and used it as a 'weapon of opportunity'.

Regardless, the 9mm is sufficient in my opinion.

 

[rcmodel]

Bring your own .45 if you feel the need.

Good luck with that!

At the least, you could expect to get caught before you got on the big bird to go to the war.
At the most, you could spend some time in the stockade, and receive a dishonorable discharge.

Besides, the added weight of the pistol, magazines, and ammo you would likely have to supply yourself would be better spent on more loaded mags for your rifle.

rc

 

[Joe Demko]

Bring your own .45 if you feel the need. Tuck it in your bag and when things start looking bad for the home team, reach for your trusted caliber and fight. As the smoke settles, just claim that you 'found' the gun and used it as a 'weapon of opportunity'.

Worst advice this week.

 

[withdrawn34]

At today's .45 ammo prices? Forget it

 

[cchris]

Too costly to switch, not used anywhere besides the US...yadda yadda yadda, they're sticking with the 9mm for the time being.

 

[Mags]

Bring your own .45 if you feel the need.

You are joking right?

 

[Mad Magyar]

When the switch was made from the .45 to the 9mm, it had nothing to do with cost savings or efficiency: politics. From the testing of pistols to giving the contract to Beretta of Italy; it was a done deal....
No, it won't happen....

 

[John Parker]

only the USA uses .45ACP

I saw plenty of Greek troops in Afghanistan carrying 1911s. I don't know if they'd been converted to 9mm or not.

 

[Balrog]

Only the US uses 45 ACP?

True, but for the most part we are also the only country with significant soldiers in the field.

NATO can't switch though; eurotrash cant handle the wrist breaking recoil and power of the 45.

 

[Hammerhead6814]

The USA was the last NATO country to issue a .45 ACP handgun. The ones that DO issue handguns issue 9x19, because ever since World War II guns chambered for it were commonplace.

Also, NATO isn't expecting to fight another war soon. The only conflict that will be fought and resolved in the foreseeable future is Afghanistan.

 

[amprecon]

Who gives a sh*t about nato anyways?

 

[smallbore]

My guess is that at the time 9mm ammo was the most widely used and easiest to obtain on the planet. Add to that the influence of NATO & monetary/private interests.

 

[GRIZ22]

I don't believe NATO takes a pistol seriously as a fighting weapon, except for Special Forces applications -- where other calibers besides 9mm can be found anyway.
__________________


Sidearms are generally issued to those whose job doesn't require them to fight with a rifle. According to the rules of warfare (can't remember whether it's Hague or Geneva) a pistol is considered a defensive weapon. Doctors, nurses, and medics are technically only supposed to be armed with pistols. These are people who don't do "serious fighting" (to me all fighting is serious). Many nurses in WWII and Korea were issued Colt 32s and 380s as defensive weapons.

The 9mm does a good job in the hands of those who don't normally fight. A bit easier to achieve success with than a 45 and that translates into a lot of training dollars. Those who use pistols to fight with have a much bigger choice than 9mm. The 9mm has worked well for the SAS but they constantly train for head shots and it seems to do well in that capacity.

 

[DougDubya]

Regardless, the 9mm is sufficient in my opinion.

Everyone should have read this line instead of bunching their panties over his offhand suggestion for smuggling a .45 auto.

 

[cocojo]

You have to remember that we conformed to their standards with the nine. Only the USA, Americans think that the 9mm is too small and doesn't work. In Europe they love the 9mm, it seems to work for them. In the US many people think it's a pee shooter, and in Europe it's their magnum. A lot of this is mind set. We here we were always taught bigger is better, but is it? Many brave Americans souls gave their lives in two big wars because of this pee shooter caliber. The Germans almost took all of Europe with this round and of course other weapons and calibers. I wonder if the German soldiers complained about the 9mm caliber as much as we do? I would love to here something from a German soldier in that war in regards to this. I would bet they never ever gave it a though.

 

[mljdeckard]

You mean 'pea shooter', right? I only point it out because in this case it is indeed.....a Freudian distinction.

It's easier for Euros to tell themselves that the 9mm is so potent when they've never shot anything else, nor have the means to try. I lived in Europe for four years, and the cops I talked to knew little if anything about their guns. Their guns are mostly for show, and many of them have orders to shoot to wound.

 

[dom1104]

It's easier for Euros to tell themselves that the 9mm is so potent when they've never shot anything else, nor have the means to try. I lived in Europe for four years, and the cops I talked to knew little if anything about their guns. Their guns are mostly for show, and many of them have orders to shoot to wound.

Ok this bothers me, I dont doubt its authenticity, but ... are they not red blooded men? How can you carry a gun, and not have any interest in it at all. Are Euros so different as to not know anything about their sidearm, especially if they are the few that get to carry one? Something bothersome in this statement.