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Will need data for H 4831 and WC 852 powder.

Discussion in 'Handloading and Reloading' started by Ignition Override, Dec 26, 2011.

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  1. Ignition Override

    Ignition Override Member

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    I've reloaded for less than two years, and have only used IMR 4064.
    Even though the friend has older reloading books, which might include these two main powders, it would nice to be able to use Google to find min. loads as with 4064.

    Found just one chart under "Handloads.com". How good is the source? Is there another with which to compare?

    My loads will always be at the "published minimums";), for both the 150 gr. .311 bullets for Enfields (".303."), and 168 gr. bullets for the Spanish FR8 (.308: quite familiar with issues...).

    By the way, the WC 852 is in tall, narrow bottles of opaque beige plastic. The labels say "Similar to H-380". Does that mean that H-380 data can be used for WC 852?
    "Handloads.com" lists nothing for WC 852 or H 4831. The WC bottle labels look old, but the 4831 labels look almost as new as my 4064 bottles.
     
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2011
  2. helotaxi

    helotaxi Member

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    Can't help with the WC 852, but you won't find data for the 4831. It's too slow to be suitable for those cartridges.
     
  3. NCsmitty

    NCsmitty Member

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    Here is a link to a burn rate chart, and it lists two different burn rates for WC852, one is similar to H380, like the canister that you have, and the other lot of WC852 is similar to the 4831 family. All are likely too slow to be efficient for the calibers that were listed, but the H380 burn rate version could be used in them, if you can find listed loads that you can trust.

    http://home.hiwaay.net/~stargate/powder/powder.htm

    Here's a couple H380 loads for your calibers.

    http://www.reloadersnest.com/query_pw.asp?CaliberID=54&Powder=Hodgdon H380

    http://www.reloadersnest.com/query_pw.asp?CaliberID=57&Powder=Hodgdon H380

    WC844 (H335) and WC846 (blc2) would be much better to use if you are into surplus powders.

    Stick with IMR4064 for the best results in the calibers mentioned.


    NCsmitty
     
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2011
  4. Ditchtiger

    Ditchtiger Member

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    Loadbooks USA lists H4831 loads using 150gr. and 180gr. lead bullets.
     
  5. Slamfire

    Slamfire Member

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    Location:
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    Back in the 80’s several 90,000 lbs lots of WC 852 were sold by the Government. The jugs I bought came from GIbrass http://www.gibrass.com/

    My lot came with a lot acceptance sheet which had this data:

    30-06 Govt Loading Data: Lake City case and Primer, 60.1 grs
    WC852, 152 gr Ball M2, average pressure 40,200 velocity 2750
    Lot BAJ 47287

    Each lot has a different burn rate. I saw data for another lot and my lot is a slower burning lot and takes more powder for the same velocity.

    Accurate Arms bought a 90,000 pound lot and sold theirs as AA2700. Their powder has a quicker burn rate than mine. That original lot is gone but they continued to sell newly made powder at the same burn rate.

    Given that, you must work up your own loading data. Such as I have done.

    I am attaching my data for the 30-06 and 303 Brit, but be aware, it will be a total fiction for you as your lot has a different burn rate.


    Code:
    [SIZE="3"]
    SAKO    24" Barrel   						
    								
    165 gr R-P SPFB  57.0 grs WC852  RA54  Fed 210M  OAL 3.330	2 Mar 91 T = 70F	
    								
    Ave Vel =	2566			2559	2533			
    Std Dev =	19			2569	2572			
    ES =	69			2584	2602			
    Low =	2533			2564	2560			
    High =	2602			2547	2567			
    N =	10							
    								
    174 FMJBT 55.0 grs WC852 WCC55 WLR OAL 3.250"	27-Nov-06	T = 60 ° F						
    				OAL 2.80"	Gamma Chrony			
    								
    Ave Vel =	2478							
    Std Dev =	17							
    ES =	59							
    High =	2507							
    Low =	2448							
    N =	16							
    								
    								
    								
    								
    174 gr FMJBT 57.0 gr WC852  RA54 Fed210M   OAL 3.330		2 Mar 91 T = 70F	
    								
    Ave Vel =	2590							
    Std Dev =	17							
    ES =	52							
    Low =	2564							
    High =	2616							
    N =	10							
    								
    								
     M1 Garand  Douglas Barrel 1:10 twist 				
    								
    174 FMJBT 57.0 WC852  WWII cases Fed210S OAL 3.30"			
    5 May 00 T = 82 ° F			(190 to 195 gr cases)		
    								
    Ave Vel =	2510							
    Std Dev =	13							
    ES =	45							
    Low =	2486							
    High =	2531							
    N =	10							
    								
    M70  26" Douglas Barrel						
    								
    175 gr Sierra  Match 57.0 gr WC852 wt'd W/W cases Fed 210S		30 April 97 T = 72F	
    								
    Ave Vel =	2596						 	
    Std Dev =	51							
    ES =	159							
    Low =	2554							
    High =	2713							
    N= 10								
    190 gr Speer Match 55.0 gr WC852 wt'd W/W cases Fed 210S		30 April 97 T= 75F	
    								
    Ave Vel =	2512							
    Std Dev =	64						 	
    ES =	191							
    Low =	2467							
    High =	2658							
    N =	10							
    								
    .303 British Chronograph Data		
    								
    								
    No. 4 MkII 							
    								
    150 gr CIL (.311) Spitzer SP  55.0 grs WC852 Lee.Scoop. 3.7 Hansen cases Fed 210S	19-Dec-92	
    			 				T ≈ 50 °F	
    Ave Vel =	2414		 		 	 		
    Std Dev =	25				 	 	 	
    ES =	61				 	 		
    Low =	2393				 	 		
    High =	2454				 	 		
    N =	5							
    								
    174 gr Hornady (.311) RN 41.5 grs WC 852  L.S. 2.8 Hansen cases  Fed 210M	30-Jul-91	
    			 				T ≈  90 °F	
    Ave Vel =	1991			  	 	 		
    Std Dev =	35			 	 	 	 	
    ES =	92			 	 	 		
    Low =	1959			 	 	 		
    High =	2051			 	 	 		
    N =	5			 				
    								
    								
    174 gr Hornady (.311) RN 46.0 grs WC 852  L.S. 3.1 Hansen cases  Fed 210M	30-Jul-91	
    			 				T ≈  90 °F	
    Ave Vel =	2205			 	 	 		
    Std Dev =	18			 	 	 	 	
    ES =	44			 	 	 		
    Low =	2180			 	 	 		
    High =	2224			 	 	 		
    N =	5			 				
    								
    174 gr FMJ Greek Bullet 55.0 grs WC852 L.S. 3.7 Hansen cases Fed 210S 19-Dec-92	
    			 			T ≈ 50 °F	
    Ave Vel =	2437				 	 		
    Std Dev =	25				 	 	 	
    ES =	55				 	 		
    Low =	2406				 	 		
    High =	2461				 	 		
    N =	5[/SIZE]
     
  6. DRYHUMOR

    DRYHUMOR Member

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    My old Lyman book has 3 loads for H4831. It's for 180 gr HPBT and 190 gr HPBT and 200 gr HPBT. Starting loads are at 45 gr. Max at 50.5, 50, and 49.5 respectively, max loads are compressed.

    Nothing on WC 852
     
  7. Ignition Override

    Ignition Override Member

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    Thanks very much.
    Some targets are paper, but most of my targets are plastic bottles at up to 50 yards.
    As I don't yet reload for the Garand (fast burn needed for op rod), burn rates might not be an issue for
    juice bottles at 50, or concrete blocks at 100 yards.

    Will check those other websites. If there is no luck there, this coworker/ friend has reloaded for decades and will find a solution (Annapolis grad. and later on the Navy Marks. Team).
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2011
  8. Slamfire

    Slamfire Member

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    My lot of WC852 and the other lot acceptance sheet I have show that for those lots, WC852 was tested for use in Garands.

    This is a powder which our normal "rules of thumb" for Garand useage do not apply. Even though WC852 is a “slow” powder, by the time it got to the gas port of a Garand, the port pressure is correct for that firearm.

    If I did not have the lot acceptance sheet, I would not have used my lot of WC852 in my Garands. It is unfortunately, far too slow for M1a’s.

    The rule of thumb of using nothing slower than IMR 4064 and nothing faster than IMR 3031 should always be used when you don’t know anything about the pressure curve of the powder under question.

    I don’t know about your lot. You can tell if a powder is inappropriate by the violent ejection of brass. At least compared to IMR 4895, the “standard” Garand powder.
     
  9. res7s

    res7s Member

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    You can find H380 and H4891 308 win data in Lyman 49. Handloader #60 has some H4891 303 Brit data in it. The only 303 Brit H380 load(other than the ones already posted) I could find was 41.0gr under a 174gr Hornady RN for 2300fps.
     
  10. ArchAngelCD

    ArchAngelCD Member

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    There usually isn't any published load data for surplus powder like WC852 or any of the other WC powders either. Like said above, you can usually get data from the reseller of the surplus powder when you buy.
     
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