Will Sucompact 9mms Wither the .380 Market?

[Timthinker]

Will the proliferation of subcompact 9mm pistols greatly reduce demand for .380 handguns? This question seems legitimate since many subcompact 9mms are comparable in size to several popular .380s. That being the case, it seems like many people may purchase the more powerful package, thereby diminishing the market for the .380, a.k.a. the 9mm Short. Thoughtful opinions will be appreciated.


Timthinker

 

[joesolo]

Not sure about everyone else but I opted for the smaller 9MM (Rohrbaugh) over a similarly sized .380. Of course the Rohrbaugh isn't as fun to shoot as something like a PPK but for carry I'd go with the new smaller 9s. I think many will do the same (smaller 9...not necessarily the Rohrbaugh).

 

[wuchak]

I'd buy a Rohrbaugh too if I could afford one but for 1/4 the price the Kel-tec P-3AT is what came home with me. It's the smallest and lightest pocket pistol in a decent sd caliber and priced at a point mere mortals can afford one. Other than the Rohrbaugh the 9mm's have a long way to go before they get close enough to the P-3AT to be a real alternative where size and weight are concerned. I also find it amusing that with all the new sub-compact 9mm's hitting the market none of them has yet been able to best the 10 year old design of the Kel-tec P11 in size,weight, and capacity. I do wish the PF9 had been somewhere between the P-3AT and P11 in size instead of just being a slimmer P11 with a better trigger and less capacity.

 

[antsi]

I am sure the micro 9mm's (and even micro-.40/.45s) are eating into the market for small .380s. I doubt they will totally whither away though.

I can definitely see the argument that if you can carry a gun that isn't much bigger and have more power, it makes sense for some people. Everyone who agrees with this thinking is probably one more person who isn't going to get a .380

However, I personally believe that there is something to be said for having an appropriate size gun for the caliber you are shooting. One of my brothers-in-law just got one of these Taurus micro-.45s. Yes it is very small and powerful. However, at the same distance I was getting 6-8 inch groups with that thing, and not having any fun doing it, I was getting one-ragged-hole groups with my .380 P 232 and enjoying it immensely.

I know a defensive carry pistol is a different animal than a gun you buy for fun on the range. However, I think there is some value in having a gun that shoots sweetly, that encourages more practice and mastery on the part of the shooter.

Also, another advantage of .380s that is sometimes lost is the shape of the guns. The blowback design tends to result in sleek pistols composed of curved shapes. A PPK or P232 may not be that much smaller than a mini-Glock or an EMP or whatever by the ruler, but sometimes it is the shape as much as the actual size that makes a gun pleasant or miserable to carry all day long.

 

[DENALI]

Hi there, good question! CZ makes arguably the best .380 on the market the CZ-83, a 12 shot 28oz 3.8 inch barreled pistol. for comparison the CZ-75PO1 9mm has a 3.67 inch barrel, 14-shot magazine and weighs just over 27oz. There are other intriuging example's like the Sig P-230 vs the Sig P-239 both 7-shot pistols with one (230) a .380 while the other comes in 9mm, .40 or even .357. I think the .380 is safe if for no other reason than that military calibers are verboten in many countries...................

 

[Majic]

Quite a few people buy the .380 acp not for the size of the platform, but for it's power level. They don't want a gun as powerful as a 9mm.

 

[Zundfolge]

Once upon a time the subcompact .380 market withered the .32 and .25 markets.


Overall this is a good thing ... I'd call it progress.

 

[Jim E]

I hope not. Like everyone else, I want the most powerful gun I can carry in my pocket. To Date I think the Glock 26, 27, and 33 are the smallest, truly reliable, full power pistols. I have three of them and they're just too big for most pocket carry applications.

From mid '97 to earlier this year I carried either a Glock 26, or a Smith and Wesson M642 everywhere I went. Last January I bought a new Bersa .380 CC and have carried that since. I won't part with my Glocks or Smiths, but this Bersa is an extraordinary little gun. Very flat. I shoot it well and have gained a lot of confidence in it.

I'm hopeful of many more pocketable designs rather than fewer.

 

[Grey54956]

I don't know if they will really wither the market to any noticeable degree. I don't have a .380 at this time, but I wouldn't mind getting one, even if 9mm is available in a similarly sized platform. Honestly, most of the itty-bitty nines are poly-framed derivatives of full size pistols, or evolved from that stock. I don't like platic guns too much. Everyone should have one, but unless it's your thing, more than that is unnecessary. I like my guns made of metal whenever and wherever possible.

 

[Javelin]

If a compact 9mm could get within an ounce or so of the P3AT and cost around $500 then sure. Until then the .380 will be the best the most prominent mousegun on the market without any fear of losing its place.

 

[Ala Dan]

Not so long as Kel-Tec's are around~!

 

[mavracer]

the Kahrs and Keltec and other small 9mm have got a lot of 380 buyers swayed.some others who put a premium on the ability to accurately place shots at a fast rate may still opt for a 380.

 

[byf43]

Personally, I think the .380 is going through a long, slow, painful death.

I used to own a .380. I couldn't afford a PPK/s, so, I had an Astra Constable.
It was a really nice pistol, but, to me, it was marginal (at best) in the defensive pistol role.
(A co-worker had a terminal case of the 'got to have that' syndrome, and offered me a LOT more for it, than I paid for it!) That Astra went to a new home.


I could have had a like new S&W 6906 in 9mm, but, I let it slip through my hands.

In a 'same size' package, the new renditions of the 9mm, .40 S&W and even the .45 acp have eclipsed the .380 for a concealable, reliable stopper.


Now, if someone wants to DONATE a nice PPK/s to this old guy, I'll give it a good home!

 

[MachIVshooter]

Though the super-compact 9's, .40's and .45's have ebbed at the .380 market a bit, such pistols as teh P3AT will keep it a viable choice. Even the Rorbaugh, at $1,000, is slightly wider and considerably heavier than the P3.

 

[MICHAEL T]

Yep the 9mm compact will ruin the 380 same way the 357 killed the 38spl.
I don't like shooting a 9mm compact and really perfer my 380 's. I carry a 1911 but 380 is in pocket as a BUG

 

[everallm]

Denali,

Which CZ are you talking about..?

The SP-01 is a full sized pistol with a 4.7" barrel
The P-01 is a smaller pistol with a 3.9" barrel
The RAMI is the sub compact with a 3" barrel

 

[old_ironsights]

.380's goin' away? Nah!

My Kel Tec P3AT, with +1 magazine, weighs 11.4 oz. I use Cor-Bon 90 gr. JHP and 1050 FPS ain't shabby.

When someone comes up with a 9mm that has the same small dimensions and low price, I'll look.

 

[fletcher]

If the 9mm pocket guns can get as small, not nearly as small, as the .380s for a reasonable or comparable price, then I think a number of people will switch.

 

[esq_stu]

They did for me. I went from P3AT to Kahr PM9 and have not looked back. The increase in power overwhelms the size/weight difference IMO.

I've kept my Makarovs simply because they are not worth much to sell and they are interesting. But they sit in the safe.

 

[skywarp_]

Makes sense.


Moving from a marginal defense caliber, direct blow back operated gun to an effective proven caliber using a browning style, or short recoil operated gun is a great step up.

 

[JERRY]

the recoil of such a gun will keep the .380 acp in style for many folks....

if the guns are the same size, of the same design, the 9mm will simply be too much gun for some....hence the 9mm short/.380...

 

[romma]

I like the .380 round. I enjoy carrying my Walther now that it works well. I eventually want to up my .32 Keltec to a P3AT..

I hope it is here to stay. There a some cool models in .380 asthetically speaking.

 

[sniper350]

ANTSI's post is extremely well written -- great job ! It covers all the aspects of why someone might actually want a smaller caliber gun.

I think the .380's will be around for some time ........advances in ammo design have brought the 380 caliber into the serious self-defense arena.

Just look at the current thread on this forum about the 380 ammo and you will learn that BUFFALO BORE is now in the business of producing a 380 +P version............... that boasts a 20 inch penetration at over 1200 FPS . Not too shabby for any defensive bullet.

JF.

 

[shamalama]

I started CC with a Kel-Tec P3AT in .380, and am now CCing their PF9 in 9mm.

 

[mljdeckard]

The way I see it, we USED to say, the .380 is ok for SD if you MUST have a very small pistol.

That went out the window when the sub-compact Glocks came out. If you can have a great small pistol in 9mm, .357 sig, .40, or .45, why would you possibly settle for a .380?

This pressure forced the market to design a lot more sub-compact pistols in 9mm, which were then chambered for .40.

TO ME, this relegates .380 to the "Use what you have but try to get something better" pile.