Will the S&W locks ever go away?
- Thread starter Todd
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J Miller
Member
As long as the political, and legal system remains like it is; NO.
Joe
Joe
Pinned&Recessed
Member
I hear through the grapevine that S&W is going to drop the locks as soon as:
They bring back the barrel pin
They start Counter-Boring magnum-caliber revolvers again (My only real wish)
They re-catalog the 5" barrel for their K, L and N-frames
They reintroduce carbon-steel guns with the Bright Blue finish
They offer real Ivory factory stocks
They put the firing pin back on the hammer nose (where God intended it to be)
They stop relying on C&C machines and MIM and go back to polished, hand-fitted, forged steel parts that are as smooth as butter
In Other Words: NEVER, unfortunately.
:banghead:
You wanna good Smith? Look for ones built prior to 1982. Prior to 1968 is better and pre-model numbers are even better.
They bring back the barrel pin
They start Counter-Boring magnum-caliber revolvers again (My only real wish)
They re-catalog the 5" barrel for their K, L and N-frames
They reintroduce carbon-steel guns with the Bright Blue finish
They offer real Ivory factory stocks
They put the firing pin back on the hammer nose (where God intended it to be)
They stop relying on C&C machines and MIM and go back to polished, hand-fitted, forged steel parts that are as smooth as butter
In Other Words: NEVER, unfortunately.
:banghead:You wanna good Smith? Look for ones built prior to 1982. Prior to 1968 is better and pre-model numbers are even better.
Tamara
Senior Member
...beacause God knows there's a huge market for $1100 revolvers!
...and smack in the middle of the Bangor Punta years. I've seen some pretty bad lemons from the early days of MIM, but nothing to equal the raw lameness of a good Bangor Punta lemon from the mid-70's. Those folks could seriously screw up a gun.
Given today's political climate and litigious society, S&W will drop the lock right after Taurus, Glock, Springfield Armory, Bersa, Remington, and Heckler & Koch do. I'd wager you'll see more gun companies offering locks in the future, not less.
It's still ugly and pointless, though.
Jim Watson
Member
I am sure they will leave the locks off of any guns so ordered by a government agency employing trained expert authorized personnel who don't need the safeguards we careless ignorant tax paying merchandise buying consumer citizens do.
Tamara
Senior Member
Jim Watson,
I'd bet that if you called them with a multi-thousand revolver contract, you could get the frames made however you want.
I'd bet that if you called them with a multi-thousand revolver contract, you could get the frames made however you want.
ElToro
Member
"I'd bet that if you called them with a multi-thousand revolver contract, you could get the frames made however you want. "
just like RSR and Lew Horton... except i know of no .gov agencies using
revos anymore
i bet you could get a custom order as low as say 500 guns... profits would be eroded quickly if you tried to get them certified for CA or MD sale
i personally dont have a problem with CNC or even MIM.. but those locks are so frickin ugly.
hey S&W.. just make a nice blue revolver like you used to.. no laser etching or hi vis sights.
just like RSR and Lew Horton... except i know of no .gov agencies using
revos anymore
i bet you could get a custom order as low as say 500 guns... profits would be eroded quickly if you tried to get them certified for CA or MD sale
i personally dont have a problem with CNC or even MIM.. but those locks are so frickin ugly.
hey S&W.. just make a nice blue revolver like you used to.. no laser etching or hi vis sights.
Desert Eagle
member
I've also got a gripe about the S$W Stainless Steel Revolvers what the heck is that dang ugly black trigger and hammer doing on a shiny stainless steel gun. I've got an older Model 66 .357 Mag. with a satin looking finish on the hammer and trigger that matches the stainless finish of the gun very nice but the newer ones look like crap.
OK I'm finished now, other than that I like all my S$W guns except for the inflated price and did I mention I sure wished they'd counter bore the cylinders too. And last but not least get ride of them generic looking rubber grips for heaven sakes not to mention if I wanted a lock on my gun I'd get me a Yale and hang it on there myself. That's not too much to ask for is it? And while their at it why don't they start pinning the barrels again how much more could that cost on a $300 revolver that they already sell for $800?: rolleyes:
DE
OK I'm finished now, other than that I like all my S$W guns except for the inflated price and did I mention I sure wished they'd counter bore the cylinders too. And last but not least get ride of them generic looking rubber grips for heaven sakes not to mention if I wanted a lock on my gun I'd get me a Yale and hang it on there myself. That's not too much to ask for is it? And while their at it why don't they start pinning the barrels again how much more could that cost on a $300 revolver that they already sell for $800?: rolleyes:
DE
tiberius
Member
Yes. They will no longer be necessary when we are only allowed to by guns with bio-metric identification systems.
Pinned&Recessed
Member
Go here:
The Inflation Calculator
A Registered Magnum was 60 bucks in 1935, and according to standard inflation rates, that same gun should cost $775.97 in 2002. Not entriely unreasonable, I mean thier current guns go for 5-700 bucks. I'd pay more for a new M29 you couldn't tell apart from a 1956 Carl Hellstrom gun. Which reminds me, I forgot to say: they go back to 5-screw frames.
As far as the Bangor Punta years, they were hit and miss. I have 3 Bangor Punta guns that are flawless, accurate and smooth. The best were the Carl Hellstrom guns, but it's personal opinion.
10-Ring
Member
As long as the political climate stays constant & even more so as they 'perfect' smart gun technology locks will be more & more prevalent
Penforhire
Member
I think the integral lock is here to stay. My 686+ with lock shoots just fine. It ruins the lines of the gun no more than the rear sight windage screw does. I disagree with the principal but I wanted a NIB S&W. I have no idea where I put the key. If it ever looks up unintentionally I will be seriously pissed but tell me again how many verified reports of that we've heard?
The number of people who whine about what won't be undone astounds me. Get over it. The next lock will be biometric so prepare to bitch about that even more vociferously...
The number of people who whine about what won't be undone astounds me. Get over it. The next lock will be biometric so prepare to bitch about that even more vociferously...
I don't know if it has anything to do with erosion of profits due to putting locks on the guns, but S&W has just had a big corporate shakeup. ??
I'm looking for an older (preferably late 1980's-1990's) three-inch bbl. M65, and a M686 now. I not only detest the lock; the frame contour and hammer spur changed on late M686's. New ones are just plain ugly.
(Please don't tell me where someone is selling such guns on the Net, etc. I never buy guns sight unseen, and I critique quality control very strictly.)
Lone Star
I'm looking for an older (preferably late 1980's-1990's) three-inch bbl. M65, and a M686 now. I not only detest the lock; the frame contour and hammer spur changed on late M686's. New ones are just plain ugly.
(Please don't tell me where someone is selling such guns on the Net, etc. I never buy guns sight unseen, and I critique quality control very strictly.)
Lone Star
jar
Contributing Member
Of course they won't go away. Why do you think they got bought by a company that makes gun locks? The only reason S&W is still in business is as an outlet for locks.
SnWnMe
Member
Oh how the masses from years past must've wailed each time Smith removed a frame screw.
Tamara
Senior Member
Pinned&Recessed,
The problem with the inflation calculator is not everything has inflated at the same rate. The old prewar premium Magnums (even postwar S-prefix 27's, 29's and the earliest 57's) were incredibly hand-labor-intensive to build and finish. Skilled hand labour has skyrocketed in price all out of proportion with the material and machinery costs. The only currently made guns with comparable amounts of hand-fitting and finishing would probably be semicustom 1911's on the order of a Baer or a Wilson.
I agree with the Bangor Punta guns being hit or miss, but the misses remain some of the most totally messed-up guns I've seen. I own ten or a dozen from that period, and one or two are really nice, but two more are pretty wretched examples of the breed. I actually think some of the mid-90's Tompkins guns, right after they went to CAD/CAM and got ISO9001 certs were some of the better Smiths since the early '60s. I also think the early MIM guns honked, but the ones I've seen over the last year or so seem to be greatly improved, QC-wise. They've ditched the goofy laser etching, too, and gone back to roll-marking, which I like. Now if they'd just ditch that wretched brushed finish on the stainless guns and go back to either bead-blasting (like they do on 625's) or polishing, that'd be nice. I can't say as I much like the lock, but I don't much like spitting into the wind, either. If I have the option of buying an older gun w/no lock and the firing pin on the hammer where God intended for it to be, then I'll do that, but I do have a strange urge for the new forthcoming 325PD and 351PD, and those models are kind of hard to find in five-screw, P&R format.
The problem with the inflation calculator is not everything has inflated at the same rate. The old prewar premium Magnums (even postwar S-prefix 27's, 29's and the earliest 57's) were incredibly hand-labor-intensive to build and finish. Skilled hand labour has skyrocketed in price all out of proportion with the material and machinery costs. The only currently made guns with comparable amounts of hand-fitting and finishing would probably be semicustom 1911's on the order of a Baer or a Wilson.
I agree with the Bangor Punta guns being hit or miss, but the misses remain some of the most totally messed-up guns I've seen. I own ten or a dozen from that period, and one or two are really nice, but two more are pretty wretched examples of the breed. I actually think some of the mid-90's Tompkins guns, right after they went to CAD/CAM and got ISO9001 certs were some of the better Smiths since the early '60s. I also think the early MIM guns honked, but the ones I've seen over the last year or so seem to be greatly improved, QC-wise. They've ditched the goofy laser etching, too, and gone back to roll-marking, which I like. Now if they'd just ditch that wretched brushed finish on the stainless guns and go back to either bead-blasting (like they do on 625's) or polishing, that'd be nice. I can't say as I much like the lock, but I don't much like spitting into the wind, either. If I have the option of buying an older gun w/no lock and the firing pin on the hammer where God intended for it to be, then I'll do that, but I do have a strange urge for the new forthcoming 325PD and 351PD, and those models are kind of hard to find in five-screw, P&R format.
Standing Wolf
Member in memoriam
I've never owned a gun with a lock on it. Never will.
Pinned&Recessed
Member
Tamara,
I do definitely agree that the price of human labor has grown all out of proportion, thereby making it cost prohibitive to make the guns of the 1950s. I was just illustrating that the locks have about as much of a chance of going away as S&W reintroducing all those features. I'm glad to hear they returned to rollmarking, I didn't know that.
I do appreciate some of their newer guns such as the Potassium J-Frames for carry (10.5 Oz .357 Mag, that's insane! But great to carry, I'm sure), and the new .500 Mag, but they still seem like tools to me as opposed to examples of hand-made wood and steel art that just so happen to be able to launch lead. You know what I mean?
I was born WAAAY to late and wish I could have been there when the guns I want could be had right off the shelf. The newest Uebertactical Black piece of OK, but I like the older stuff. Oh well.
I do definitely agree that the price of human labor has grown all out of proportion, thereby making it cost prohibitive to make the guns of the 1950s. I was just illustrating that the locks have about as much of a chance of going away as S&W reintroducing all those features. I'm glad to hear they returned to rollmarking, I didn't know that.
I do appreciate some of their newer guns such as the Potassium J-Frames for carry (10.5 Oz .357 Mag, that's insane! But great to carry, I'm sure), and the new .500 Mag, but they still seem like tools to me as opposed to examples of hand-made wood and steel art that just so happen to be able to launch lead. You know what I mean?
I was born WAAAY to late and wish I could have been there when the guns I want could be had right off the shelf. The newest Uebertactical Black piece of OK, but I like the older stuff. Oh well.
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