Win M70 vs CZ550 vs Kimber 8400

[Moo 2 Drvr]

I am trying to pick a general purpose hunting rifle (deer, hogs and as a backup varmint rifle) from among these three choices in 30/06.

My firearm experience started with pistols and shotguns and only recently gravitated to rifles. About a year ago I bought two .22 rifles (Marlin 60 and Ruger 10/22 and have been practicing regularly with them to learn the rifleman's craft. About six months ago I bought a varmint rifle in .223 and now I am learning the ins and outs of centerfire cartridges. I intend to start reloading within the next year, which was a factor in selecting 30/06 vs .308. Eventually, I will add a .308 bench rest rifle (for a later post).

Now I want a high quality bolt gun. For the time being I am excluding the semi custom guns, like Cooper and Baer. I have only included Kimber because market forces cause them to sell at a substantial discount from MSRP. I like blued steel and wood and accept the consequences of that decision.

With respect to these choices:

Win 70 - I am only considering new at this time - meaning FN manufactured. I really like the Super Grade, but would consider the other wood stocked models (sporter and featherweight). Weight is not a major factor as I intend to purchase a mountain rifle, probably a Kimber 84M or Remington 7 at a later date.

CZ 550 - Which model? There are at least three that I can find, not counting custom shop versions.

Kimber 8400 - Here I am concerned about quality and customer service as I am familiar with issues on this product.

I would appreciate any first hand comments on any of these three rifles. Please do not suggest a different caliber or brand. while you may be correct, that isn't the thrust of this post. (OK, I will admit I am willing to consider the Ruger 77 Hawkeye. I love the look and feel of these rifles, but I have heard they aren't very accurate and that concerns me. Also, some of the new ones I've handled don't have the same quality fit and finish as the three mentioned above).

I look forward to learning the group's collective opinion.

Thanks

 

[TX Hog Hunter]

I have a new (FN) Win m70 in .30-06 and I have tried everything and can't get a group under 1.5" on a good day, it's basically a 2" gun. It's going to a gun show...........

My CZ 550 is in 9.3x62 and I love it, good fit and finish and shoots really good. It's fairly heavy and has somewhat of a bulky feel though.

No experience with the Kimber 8400, but my 84 in .308 is a nice rifle and shoot OK. If light weight is a plus to you, then this is the one to get.

Ck out a Ruger M77 Hawkeye. I have the laminate stock model and it is my favorite rifle. The handling "feel" of the rifle is the best I have felt, fit and finish is very good and mine shoots really good with several loads. Ruger is making the bbls on brand new hammer forging equipment so the bbls are top quality. The new M77s have the safest possible safety too.

CZ and Ruger both come with quality factory rings which saves you a few bucks too.

As far as overall mfg quality I'd rank them like this:

Kimber
Ruger
CZ
Win

 

[JimmAr]

I have a new (FN) Win m70 in .30-06 and I have tried everything and can't get a group under 1.5" on a good day, it's basically a 2" gun. It's going to a gun show...........

My CZ 550 is in 9.3x62 and I love it, good fit and finish and shoots really good. It's fairly heavy and has somewhat of a bulky feel though.

No experience with the Kimber 8400, but my 84 in .308 is a nice rifle and shoot OK. If light weight is a plus to you, then this is the one to get.

Ck out a Ruger M77 Hawkeye. I have the laminate stock model and it is my favorite rifle. The handling "feel" of the rifle is the best I have felt, fit and finish is very good and mine shoots really good with several loads. Ruger is making the bbls on brand new hammer forging equipment so the bbls are top quality. The new M77s have the safest possible safety too.

CZ and Ruger both come with quality factory rings which saves you a few bucks too.

As far as overall mfg quality I'd rank them like this:

Kimber
Ruger
CZ
Win

You serious about ruger ahead of CZ? Come now you must of got the one cherry ruger out of the 10's of thousands made at the factory. Aside from that I vote for CZ excellent rifles excellent accuracy.

 

[TX Hog Hunter]

JimmAr

Have you checked out the new production Hawkeyes? They are a big improvement over the original m77s and MK IIs. Overall fit and finish is better than the CZ and there is no comparison to the feel and handling qualities.

 

[JimmAr]

JimmAr

Have you checked out the new production Hawkeyes? They are a big improvement over the original m77s and MK IIs. Overall fit and finish is better than the CZ and there is no comparison to the feel and handling qualities.

No TX I have not, maybe they did make a turnout I wasnt aware of it to be perfectly honest.. I do actually hope they turned things around after all they are ruger and have had a name to make for themselves some time now and failed to do so as their rifles are concerned.

 

[Eightball]

Just as something I was wondering.....are all of these rifles CRF/Mauser style? And, what is the method of constructing (forge, cast, etc) of the major pieces of the mechanism?

I'm kind of debating similar options; not meaning to hijack the thread, I just haven't been able to see that model of CZ up close/ask anyone who knows in person.

 

[gga357]

I have a a M70 super grade in 30-06 and can get excellent accuracy with Rem accutips. Ballistic tips grouped about 1.5", not so good. I will try A-MAX next as I have found those th be extremely accurate in my .308.

Because it took a year for the super grade to ship after the original release date I almost went with the Kimber, but am very happy with the M70.

 

[Werewolf]

CZ-550 American
Biggest bang for the buck (no pun intended).

Super good fit and finish on all metal. The wood is superb.

Very accurate right out of the box and it comes with rings (no irons on the American model).

Got mine about three years ago. It's chambered in .308. I am a very satisfied customer.

 

[ArmedBear]

Hawkeye... Overall fit and finish is better than the CZ

I've looked at a good number, and neither are they anywhere near as nicely made as a CZ, nor are they an improvement over recent Mark IIs. They're a huge leap down. The Hawkeye feels like a box of gravel when you work the bolt. I wasn't just disappointed, I was disgusted, when I checked them out.

The CZ is gorgeous, but HEAVY. I have a heavy rifle, and it's okay with me, but the Kimber and Model 70 are in a whole other league as hunting rifles, simply due to weight.

The Kimbers are incredible hunting rifles. That would be my first choice. Model 70 would come right after (Featherweight version), or before if you care about a few hundred bucks.

 

[Moo 2 Drvr]

OK, just to muddy the waters here. I just got off the phone with my local pusher. He has a Cooper Model 52 in stock in 30/06 with what he claims is beautiful wood that he will give me for about $1,500. The Kimber 8400 with better than standard wood is $1,200 and the Superamerica, which I would love, is $2,200 - quite spendy.

The Mod 70 Featherweight is less than $800 and the 70 Super Grade is around a grand.

Any thoughts from the group?

 

[ArmedBear]

As a general-purpose hunting rifle, assuming that you give a crap about money, the Featherweight would be my choice.

Beautiful wood is nice. ...hanging on the wall.

Picture it with dings in it, because that's how it will look if you use it.

Sometimes it's not the "nicest" rifle you want; it's the most appropriate rifle. It's up to you, of course.

 

[Moo 2 Drvr]

Thanks Bear.

I'll take a good long look at the Featherweight and the base model Kimber 8400 as soon as I can find them.

 

[tiwil]

Most personal review of the fn mod 70 that I read says that they are very accurate (And i've read quite a few).My fn fwt is very well made and it shoot just as good as my other rifle and the action really smooth.The kimber are nice looking rifle but I've herd mix review about them, some shoot really good will other doesn't.

 

[jmr40]

CZ's are beautiful rifles and they shoot, but I would take the Ruger. CZ is simply too heavy for my tastes. Of the 3 choices I would go Winchester. Ruger would be a close 2nd choice. I have a Kimber 84 and like it a lot. The 8400 just does not balance or look right. The action is too looong for the cartridges it is chambered for.

 

[ArmedBear]

I have a very hard time believing that anyone who has handled the Hawkeye and the new Model 70 would consider the Ruger a "close second choice" or even in the running.

Fit and finish notwithstanding, the Ruger is sub-par, and feels unfinished when you work the bolt. Its 3-position safety doesn't even lock the bolt down in the third position. It locks it to about 45 degrees, which is close to useless.

The Winchester is a whole different class of rifle from the Ruger, and it's also made in the USA.

BTW if you're looking in the $1000+ range, check out the Thompson/Center Icon, also made in the USA. It's a very nice piece, and it's a modern design that's made to be something new and better, not something new, crappy and cheap.

I've about given up on the R's. Winchester is a new company, and Savage reinvented itself a few years ago. Between them and Thompson/Center, you can buy some good US-made production rifles -- you just have to get used to looking in new places.

 

[Moo 2 Drvr]

Thompson ICON Classic · 30-06 · 24" Barrel · Blued · Walnut Stock · Hinged Floor Plate · Deluxe · Interlock Aluminum Bedding Block w/3 Locking Lugs · Solid Top Receiver w/Weaver Rail · 5R Rifling · New
#THO5542 $579.99

This is from a post last week quoting from a CDNN blast email. It is quite a price! There may even be a rebate of $150 off this price. At $430 plus tax and FFL fee, this would be very hard to beat.

 

[ArmedBear]

That is a genuine deal, because it's a really nice rifle, even at twice the price.

 

[tango2echo]

+2 for the TC Icon.
I've shot 5 or 6 and they were all MOA to Sub-MOA right out of the box with factory Federal or Hornady ammo.
T2E

 

[TX Hog Hunter]

I've done a little more than "looked at" Ruger Hawkeyes, I own several and shoot/hunt with them often. I stand by my previous comment, the fit and finish is superior to CZ 550s and they definately feel and handle better.

 

[TX Hog Hunter]

OK, just to muddy the waters here. I just got off the phone with my local pusher. He has a Cooper Model 52 in stock in 30/06 with what he claims is beautiful wood that he will give me for about $1,500. The Kimber 8400 with better than standard wood is $1,200 and the Superamerica, which I would love, is $2,200 - quite spendy.

The Mod 70 Featherweight is less than $800 and the 70 Super Grade is around a grand.

Any thoughts from the group?

Personally I wouldn't touch a Cooper after the owner being a big contributor to the Obama campaign.

 

[sumpnz]

TX Hog Hunter - Cooper is under new ownership. He is no longer involved. This is due entirely to sentiments such as yours.

 

[gga357]

Still vote M70.

 

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

CZ - beautifully made rifle and set trigger to boot.

 

[Fburgtx]

Back when CZ's were cheaper, this would have been an easy choice. However, the prices have gone up in the last year or two and are right up there with the Hawkeye/Winchester/etc.

I've looked at several of the new Win M70's and am quite impressed. I've seen them going for as low as $699 here in Texas. A Kimber can easily run $300-$400 more, and really don't offer that much extra.

The Hawkeyes are ok, but to try and put them in the same class as the M70 is ridiculous. The stocks are certainly nicer than the old M77's, but the new "matte" bluing is an abomination. Work the action of the Hawkeye and the M70 one after the other and look them over closely and I think you'll agree the Winny is a better gun (I realize you weren't looking at Rugers, but previous posters brought this on).

For the money, the M70 is really the best deal. You get the fit and finish of the Kimber at close to the CZ price. The main thing you need to ask yourself is whether you consider the single-set trigger of the CZ a good or a bad thing (the trigger isn't that great in the "non-set" mode".

 

[Omaha-BeenGlockin]

I picked up a NIB stainless Hawkeye .30-06 for next to nothing($450-sat on the rack for a year,dealer marked it down) for a back-up rifle.

Using the Federal 150gn loads from Walmart($14/box) its a sub-moa tack driver---I love the feel of this gun and I'm seriously considering making this my main rifle and maybe getting another one.

You can't beat the Hawkeye in my book--even at the $600 everyday price.

As noted before--I'd skip the wood for a serious hunting rifle--- none of mine have it although I do appreciate the looks---my only gun with pretty wood is my 20ga dove shooter----everything else is either laminated or synthetic.