Winchester 1897 - should I go back?

[Arp32]

Stopped at Cabela's today to stretch my legs after a work road trip and saw an 1897 in the used gun racks. Bluing was heavily worn, wood so-so, sticker said $350. They've got those stupid plastic ties on them so you can't really dry fire them, but the action seemed smooth from what I could tell.

I almost bought it on impulse. I had convinced myself that with the mileage reimbursement from today's trip, it was really a $150 gun...

Thing is, I have no idea what to look for on an 1897. The last old gun I bought was an Ithaca 37 that was actually missing parts and I didn't even notice. I still love it, but that Ithaca wasn't such a smoking deal after the trip to the gunsmith. That experience was the reason the Winchester didn't go home with me today.

Besides obviously missing parts, what should I be looking for on this gun? $350 seems to be a reasonable price from a quick look at closed GB auctions. Does it sound reasonable to you guys?

I never much cared for these guns until I shouldered it. I kinda liked it.

 

[Arp32]

Also, can you shoot buckshot and slugs safely in these old guns? I just opened a ton of old threads and I see folks recommending light birdshot loads, but nothing on buckshot or slugs.

 

[deere140]

Well, I recently bought my first 1897. I am very glad I bought it, it is a great shotgun. If I remember correctly I read that cracks on the stock are very common, so it should be checked. I think I also read that some will not chamber 2 3/4" shells, mine is marked 2 3/4 on the barrel. I also recently bought a Ithaca 37, it is also a great gun. I am guessing if I were to take either hunting the 37 would always go, but the 1897 is a lot of fun to shoot.

 

[Dave McCracken]

The 97 is one of the classic designs, but many examples are old and tired.

Between the CAS folks and Simmons Guns and Nu Line, there's some smiths that speak fluent 97, so if there's issues they can be resolved.

For $150, I'd take a chance PDQ. For $350, I'd have to look it over plenty first.

Note: While the 97 runs smooth, the action takes a bit more arm than other brands. Don't let this fool you into thinking something's amiss.

Buck and slugs? Sure.....

 

[lobo9er]

i've had a couple that have been traded away. The two I had were very worn I bought them used and used them myself. But the two I had had alot of pitting other wise I would have kept one of'em. Every gun show I see a few they are a fun gun to take out and slam fire. Will cabela's gauruntee them or is it "as is"?
A take down model is a very handy shotgun. breaks in half like a model 12.

 

[303tom]

YES !!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Zeeemu]

Before purchase, if you can, rack back the slide once and slowly return it. As the action closes you should hear a faint click that indicates it's fully locked. If it doesn't click I'd only buy it subject to a gunsmiths inspection.

Richard

 

[rcmodel]

And don't dry fire it, even if the cut the Tye off for you.

100 year old firing pins crystallize and break pretty easily on old Winchesters.

rc

 

[Red Cent]

Returning the bolt to battery with the forearm should lock the action. There is a little bar running the length of the elevator. The button on the back right side of the receiver levers the rear of the bar out and the front in allowing the slide and bolt to cycle. When the forearm locks up, there should be very little play in the slide assembly. The button is used when gun is cocked. The action should cycle only if the hammer is all the way down or pushing the button when cocked. On half cock, you cannot cycle. You must lower the hammer, or cock it and use the button.
Never had any trouble with the firing pin. As a cowboy shooter, I practice/dry fire a lot with my 97s and have never replaced a firing pin. Not to say it won't break.

$350.00 is an average price around these parts in the shape you describe.

If it is an "E", that is a plus. If not, open the action and look at the other side of the receiver, about halfway, just in front of the bolt. . There should be an ejector spring sticking about an 1/8" into the receiver. Right behind it, half hid by the bolt you will see a "stud" 1/16" behind the spring. If it has the stud and not the spring. Pass. It will never eject properly. These are "C" and "D" models usually.

As with most older guns stuff wears. The left hand extractor is normally one. Easy to replace if you know how to get the bolt out. It ain't hard, but mind boggling to a novice. A 'smith can change it in less than 30 minutes.

Take a spent round with you to the store. Open the action, lay the empty on the elevator and chamber it. Not too briskly but firmly cycle the action. If there is a spring and stud and the shell dribbles out of the port, the left hand extractor is bad. But it will eject. Cowboys want there 97s to put the hull about 3 feet left and a foot or so in front of the shooter.

I really like my 97s. John Moses built an awesome machine way back in 1897. Really 1893 but thats another story.

BTW, you did not say if it is a solid frame or a takedown. If it is a solid frame add about a $100.00 to the value. The solid frame is noticeably lighter and preferred by most.

 

[Arp32]

Thanks guys, I appreciate the tips. I'm giving it a hard thinking. I know if I go back to "just look," I'll buy it for sure.

 

[303tom]

Thanks guys, I appreciate the tips. I'm giving it a hard thinking. I know if I go back to "just look," I'll buy it for sure.

Then go back.................

 

[lobo9er]

BTW, you did not say if it is a solid frame or a takedown. If it is a solid frame add about a $100.00 to the value. The solid frame is noticeably lighter and preferred by most.

not for me I wouldn'y buy a solid frame.

 

[PocketRocket]

I bought a reblued 97 with good wood and a barrel cut back to riot gun length for $300 about 7 years ago.

The pump action was smooth and it had a nice heft, so I was anxious to get it out to the skeet range. The following weekend I took it with me along with my dedicated skeet gun. I have a habit of pulling the gun into my shoulder with my left hand that’s holding the forend. At the ready on station 3 for the first high house the action opened when I pulled the 97 into my shoulder. After several attempts the gun would not lock closed so it went to the gunsmith for repair.

I had another minor malfunction, so it was off to the gunsmith again. I bought it to play with and have no plans for serious duty and it’s now hanging on a wall in my man cave.

Important Note: If I don't release the trigger after firing a round, the gun will fire after I jack another round into the chamber without releasing the trigger first. I’ve been told that all 97s will do this, but I don’t know for sure.

 

[Arp32]

Actually I didn't even know about the take down models when I was in the store. I had never been into 1897's based on looks, and this was the first one I ever shouldered.

That's how I got a 1911 for my first pistol. Handled about a dozen kinds of handguns and when I picked up the Colt it just felt right.

But back to the solid vs. take-down, I could go either way. A little more weight should add to the shooting comfort, and breaking it down for carrying seems pretty slick.

With Red Cents tips I've got at least got something to be on the lookout for, and it wouldn't be a great hardship if I had to spend a bit for gunsmithing.

 

[gunner69]

I own a Model 97, in 16 gage, that was my Grandfathers. It is the "takedown" model. I do not shoot heavy loads in this shotgun. The strongest loads I have ever shot was duck loads. It never fails me (knock on wood). The last pheasant hunt I went on I loaned my Model 1100 12gage to one of the guys whose winchesters failed. I reached in the truck and took the Winchester 97 out and their were a few snickers. At the end of the day everyone wanted to handle my '97. I took second place in the total number of birds (pay hunt-no limit) just below an Olympic shooter. It's a deadly old gun for sure.

 

[Red Cent]

If the shotgun is a takedown and the two pieces are not tight, it can be adjusted. If they are loose, a gunsmith can adjust it in about 20-30 minutes. If it has been adjusted to its limits you would have to shim it. Buy it on the condition that it can be adjusted. If it is a solid frame, it will not be loose. Can't. Another reason the solid frame is preferred.

 

[Arp32]

Well, I was mistaken. It was only $249, so that made it a pretty easy choice.

It is an E model (thanks for the tip!), and it's a take-down as you can see in the pic. It does have a slight wobble that I didn't pick up on until I shouldered it quickly. Not scary loose, though.

Pretty happy with it. Serial number is 7700XX which I think puts it at 1925 production. My 1943 Winchester Garand was my oldest gun prior to this.

I'm thinking I'll probably send it to one of the gunsmiths mentioned above for a once over before shooting it, that way I'll have it back when the weather cools off.

Thanks guys!

 

[gunner69]

Congradulations you got a deal my friend. If ever there is a home invasion just hold the trigger back and pump away...... that's what's called an "Atlan Special" if you put an extended mag tube on it. They must have worked well because the Germans sure learned to respect them.

 

[Eureka40]

WOW, thanks for the 97 thread. After reading this thread I pulled down my Grandfathers 97 from my closet. I've had this gun for about 35 years and never knew it was a take-down. I checked the serial # (54,xxx) and found it was made in 1898-1899.
I did some bird hunting with it when I was a kid. Now I think I'll take it to a good smith and get it fixed up real good. This old gem is about 114 years old!!

 

[jfurlong]

Eureka40, if you're going to have your 97 redone I highly recommend Simmon's in Olathe, KS. They just did a restore on my Model 12 (originally purchased in 1918 by my Great-Grandfather) and did an outstanding job.

 

[PabloJ]

Stopped at Cabela's today to stretch my legs after a work road trip and saw an 1897 in the used gun racks. Bluing was heavily worn, wood so-so, sticker said $350. They've got those stupid plastic ties on them so you can't really dry fire them, but the action seemed smooth from what I could tell.

I almost bought it on impulse. I had convinced myself that with the mileage reimbursement from today's trip, it was really a $150 gun...

Thing is, I have no idea what to look for on an 1897. The last old gun I bought was an Ithaca 37 that was actually missing parts and I didn't even notice. I still love it, but that Ithaca wasn't such a smoking deal after the trip to the gunsmith. That experience was the reason the Winchester didn't go home with me today.

Besides obviously missing parts, what should I be looking for on this gun? $350 seems to be a reasonable price from a quick look at closed GB auctions. Does it sound reasonable to you guys?

I never much cared for these guns until I shouldered it. I kinda liked it.

No. Those are heavy, the pump mechanism takes more effort to stroke then most others and if you have large palms back of the bolt can cut your hand when the slide is worked to rearmost position. I passed on 16ga 1897 w/ 28" IC gun but found Model 12 riot gun in very good shape few weeks later. The model 12 is much better shotgun imo.

 

[Guillermo]

she is a bonny lass

you can slam fire her too!!!

 

[Guillermo]

The model 12 is much better shotgun imo

I have got it bad for Model 12s

Have three so far and it is hard for me to turn them down.

But I would love to have a '97.

If nothing else, a classic. And I think rather purposeful looking.

 

[Eureka40]

Thanks so much for the info. I don't have a lot of smith options locally.

 

[lobo9er]

I agree with everyone, that is a beautiful gun, congrats! They are alot of fun. I always wanted to have one parkerized saw one once that was, looked tough. wont help the resale but hey i liked it.