Winchester .38 Spl "FBI Load" (158gr LSWCHP) is far too smoky

[P. Plainsman]

Got a box of the well-regarded "FBI load" for .38 Special +P -- namely, a 158 grain lead semi-wadcutter hollowpoint -- manufactured by Winchester. It shot fine in my medium frame .357 revolvers, with mellow recoil.

However, it was far too smoky. Big billowing swirl of fumes from the gun with each shot. One cylinder full was enough to cloud up my booth until the breeze dispersed it (I only shoot outdoors now, for a reason I'll disclose in a moment). The dirtiness of the Win FBI load, compared to both the cheap Federal FMJ and the pricey Federal and Hornady JHPs I was shooting for the rest of the session, was simply drastic.

I refuse to shoot that ammo again.

I got a bout of acute lead poisoning several months ago, which I believe was caused by shooting in a poorly ventilated indoor range. I switched to outdoor shooting and jacketed bullets, and my symptoms gradually disappeared. I never want to feel like that again.

You can't tell me that smoke cloud produced by the FBI load, with its bare, soft lead bullet, doesn't entail a whole lot more airborne lead than jacketed rounds. I have the same negative view of smoky LRN cowboy action loads.

Forget it. Only jacketed ammo for me (and only outdoor ranges, except on very rare occasions). If I take up handloading, the same rules will apply: FMJ, JHP and JSP bullets only.

 

[Marshall]

But it's the powder that's smoking, not the lead.

 

[P. Plainsman]

My understanding is that it was both.

 

[ACP230]

It could be that the lube on the bullet is making a lot of the smoke.

 

[RON in PA]

It's the lube.

 

[stans]

It is that lovely, waxy, filmy lube vaporizing combined with the smoke commonly seen with "smokeless" powder.

 

[surfinUSA]

If you already have had lead poisoning, you should probably never shoot at an indoor range. Regardless of what you are shooting someone else will be shooting lead bullets.

Even at an outdoor range if i was you I would only use jaceted bullets. The old FBI/Metro load is a great one but there are others just as good with jacketed bullets.

 

[MikeJ]

I experienced the same thing with the Winchester 158 grain LSWCHP at an indoor range and wound up giving the rest of the box after having shot one cylinder full to another shooter. I switched to the Speer Gold Dot 125 grain +P round.

 

[Tamara]

Unjacketed bullets obviously put more lead in the air, but that had nothing to do with the smoke you saw. The visible smoke, as others pointed out, was from the lube.

If you've had elevated heavy metal levels once already, it might be a good idea to stick to outdoor ranges for a while. Don't be a'feared of the smoke, though; it's just burning wax.

 

[P. Plainsman]

Good, clarifying advice as usual, folks. Perhaps this thread will be useful to some others in the future.

Thanks.

 

[Onmilo]

An indoor range that still allows lead bullets!??
Wow!
I am glad I am not forced to stay indoors to do my shooting.

 

[ted murphy]

Sorry about the lead poisioning, I'm fixing to get my blood tested after the holidays. I get it both ways, at the range and at work.

While lead poisoining is nothing to joke about, a few years back I had a friend get in a shooting (LE) and I asked him what happened to the other guy. He smiled and said "he got acute lead poisioning". Always thought that was a clever way to put it.

Ted

 

[Cosmoline]

Can you fill us in on the symptoms for lead poisoning? That's pretty scary if you got it from shooting indoors. I was operating under the belief that in adults it takes a great deal of lead to reach toxic levels.

 

[P. Plainsman]

I had the full range of classic LP symptoms: Shortness of breath, odd abdominal pains, acute constipation, insomnia, fatigue.

It really sucked. I diagnosed myself, incidentally. My doc was skeptical, but I insisted he give me the blood test. Sure enough, my measured lead level was quite high: 40-45 micrograms/dl. If that were a workplace exposure, OSHA regs would have required that I be removed from the site.

I don't rule out that some of my poisoning might have been from improper cleaning -- allowing fouled solvent patches to touch the bare fingers. But I soon learned to clean my guns correctly, yet my symptoms kept worsening until I started shooting outdoors.

I am convinced that a bum ventilation system at an indoor range bore significant responsibility for my illness. (I was shooting there once a week during the peak period.)

 

[Super Trucker]

What does " LSWCHP " mean?
Thanks

 

[Gunsnrovers]

Lead Semi Wad Cutter Hollow Point

 

[Super Trucker]

Thank you Gunsnrovers now I know.

 

[Johnny Guest]

I don't know about the Winchester loads - -

Can't recall ever shooting any of 'em indoors. Outdoors, they may display a bit more smoke.

I have fired the equivalent Remington 158 gr. LSWCHP+P indoors, though, and it doesn't seem particularly smoky. As a bonus, the Remington chronographs a few fps faster in my various revolvers

Best,
Johnny

 

[geekWithA.45]

OK, so what's the remedy for lead poisoning?

Obviously, removing oneself from the source of contamination is a starting point, but what next?

Does it leach out naturally? Stay put? Drugs to flush it?

 

[P. Plainsman]

I am not a doctor; please take all that follows with NaCl.

Of any given amount of lead that enters the body through inhalation, ingestion, or whatever, most of it will pass out over the next few months. But a little doesn't; it collects in the bones and other tissues, and is released quite slowly over time -- can take years. So symptoms typically taper off once you're removed from the site, but if you've been repeatedly exposed to lead over a long time -- police/military range instructors are classic candidates -- you can build up a more or less permanent deposit that keeps you constantly lead poisoned. It sounds miserable, and I send out my thoughts and prayers for anyone in such a condition.

When it gets really bad -- either a short-term, very high-level exposure or someone with a significant long-term level -- the principal therapy is "chelation" therapy: they put a bunch of bad-*ss stuff in your blood that leaches out some of the lead, chemically. From what I've read, this is effective, but is just as unpleasant as it sounds, and it can damage the kidneys and other organs as well.

That's my recollection of the articles I read when diagnosing myself; anyone who knows more should please step in and clarify or correct what I've stated.

Stay safe, everyone.

Like I said, jacketed bullets for me from here on out. Rubber gloves to clean the guns, of course. Wash hands thoroughly -- every time -- after handling guns or ammo.

And I am hesitant about taking up reloading, much as I think I'd love it.