wannabeagunsmith
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The west becoming settled, all the wars and modern innovations.. and it sat there all that time. Amazing.
Winchester 73 found in National Park
- Thread starter rcmodel
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WestKentucky
Member
Guaranteed that the action was rusted shut, even in that dry desert. That once a decade rain would have gotten into it and gummed it up with rust. Barrel too...wonder how they checked to see if it's loaded? Cleaning rod check may not even work if the barrel was very rusty.
GAMEOVER44
Member
That's one discovery id a loved to make. I was going to post about it on here as I heard it a bit ago but it seems news moves pretty darn fast around here. 
lol herky.
lol herky.
jim in Anchorage
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Not to hijack the thread but this fits the forgotten gun theme.
http://www.adn.com/article/20101013/park-service-finds-old-pistol-hidden-gold-rush-building
http://www.adn.com/article/20101013/park-service-finds-old-pistol-hidden-gold-rush-building
rcmodel
Member in memoriam
Update.
I have followed this story since the rifle was found last January.
Sadly, there have been no follow-up stories I have found since late January.
I followed the Great Basin National Park news letter until the summer edition came out a couple of weeks ago.
Again, no mention of the 1873 rifle found leaning against a tree 6 months ago.
So today, I fired off an email to them.
And got this back at 6:45 Saturday night::
Stay tuned!
For some reason, this story just haunts me wanting to know the circumstances of how an empty 73 Winchester got leaned against a tree 100+ years ago and left there in the wilderness.
I can't see any rational man in that country having an empty rifle in the first place.
Or leaving it there leaned against a tree, unless he was in dire straits of some kind already and ran out off ammo & water.
rc
I have followed this story since the rifle was found last January.
Sadly, there have been no follow-up stories I have found since late January.
I followed the Great Basin National Park news letter until the summer edition came out a couple of weeks ago.
Again, no mention of the 1873 rifle found leaning against a tree 6 months ago.
So today, I fired off an email to them.
And got this back at 6:45 Saturday night::
Stay tuned!
For some reason, this story just haunts me wanting to know the circumstances of how an empty 73 Winchester got leaned against a tree 100+ years ago and left there in the wilderness.
I can't see any rational man in that country having an empty rifle in the first place.
Or leaving it there leaned against a tree, unless he was in dire straits of some kind already and ran out off ammo & water.
rc
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BSA1
member
My theory is he didn't. I think he died there. However his bones have been scattered by wild animals and decayed due to the elements over time. Still a careful search and digging would be interesting.
This is not that mysterious. Have you ever worked on a cattle ranch? I remember being bounced high out of my saddle when my horse stopped suddenly on a hillside. From a height of 7 feet I fell hard on my collarbone and head. Thats just the start. Now I have to get over the pain and catch my running horse on foot. 1/2 mile later I was lucky to catch him and get back in the saddle. Now if this had happened to me in wilderness, or bad weather, any number of things might compound the situation. I agree something unexpected probly happened. I'm not even going to start in about the time my horse disappeared from under me in a deep river.
Jackal
Member
My vote is for Alien abduction.
rcmodel
Member in memoriam
I agree something like that horse episode could have happened.
But I don't agree you would be running around in the Great Basin wilderness many miles from civilization in the 1800's with an empty Winchester 1873 rifle.
I think whoever it was probably died there.
He may have been in a fight for his life and ran out of ammo?
He may have fired all his ammo as a signal trying to attract help after he broke a leg on a bucking horse and left him there with nothing?
(But how come he was left with the rifle if the horse ran off?)
Then, he may have ran out of water, became delirious, and shot it all up at imaginary giant spiders? Then laid down and died?
But no rational man would lean a Winchester against a tree and walk off and forget it!!
And no rational man would have had an empty rifle there in the first place!
If he died there, a comprehensive metal Detecter search should find a belt buckle, or suspender buttons, a knife, coins, prospecting tools, cooking utensils, or shell casings (if it was a fight to the death standoff.)
I just hope they do a through search of the surrounding area is all I was saying.
Thank you.
rc
But I don't agree you would be running around in the Great Basin wilderness many miles from civilization in the 1800's with an empty Winchester 1873 rifle.
I think whoever it was probably died there.
He may have been in a fight for his life and ran out of ammo?
He may have fired all his ammo as a signal trying to attract help after he broke a leg on a bucking horse and left him there with nothing?
(But how come he was left with the rifle if the horse ran off?)
Then, he may have ran out of water, became delirious, and shot it all up at imaginary giant spiders? Then laid down and died?
But no rational man would lean a Winchester against a tree and walk off and forget it!!
And no rational man would have had an empty rifle there in the first place!
If he died there, a comprehensive metal Detecter search should find a belt buckle, or suspender buttons, a knife, coins, prospecting tools, cooking utensils, or shell casings (if it was a fight to the death standoff.)
I just hope they do a through search of the surrounding area is all I was saying.
Thats real helpful.
Thank you.
rc
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Bull Nutria
Member
this is what i think happened the guy was a prospector and he laid his empty rifle against the tree and walked off to take a dump or was delirious,tired and lost and saw no use in carrying an empty rifle. now if he walked off and forgot the rifle he may have not been able to retrace his steps or because of delirium ,hunger, or whatever never went back for it . As RC said he may have just died right there??
Who knows what really happened but we all wish that RIFLE COULD TALK!!
Bull
Who knows what really happened but we all wish that RIFLE COULD TALK!!
Bull
Peter M. Eick
Member
My thought would be that it was just cleaned and the person leaned it up against a tree while cleaning up things. The pictures indicated to me it would have been a nice spot for a campfire, clean a rifle and do chores spot with good visibility.
So clean the gun, rest it up to let it dry out from cleaning (probably with water for black powder loads?) and something happened to the owner which is why it was not loaded. Animal attack, heart attack, snake bite? Who knows but probably nearby is the answer.
So clean the gun, rest it up to let it dry out from cleaning (probably with water for black powder loads?) and something happened to the owner which is why it was not loaded. Animal attack, heart attack, snake bite? Who knows but probably nearby is the answer.
bainter1212
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RC,
I assume from reading your posts for several years, that you are a retired gentleman.
Is there any reason you couldn't take a road trip, perhaps in an RV with your wife, and metal-detect the area yourself? Tell the Park Service people you will hand over anything you find to them along with a diagram of where it was found.
Sorry for the presumption, just sounds like a really fun trip that would apparently scratch an itch for you.
I assume from reading your posts for several years, that you are a retired gentleman.
Is there any reason you couldn't take a road trip, perhaps in an RV with your wife, and metal-detect the area yourself? Tell the Park Service people you will hand over anything you find to them along with a diagram of where it was found.
Sorry for the presumption, just sounds like a really fun trip that would apparently scratch an itch for you.
rcmodel
Member in memoriam
Yes there is a reason.
My wife has stage 5 Alzheimer's and we can't go anywhere, or do anything.
That why my post count is so high!!
rc
My wife has stage 5 Alzheimer's and we can't go anywhere, or do anything.
That why my post count is so high!!
rc
g.willikers
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Sorry to hear that.
Just when ya' get to the time of life when there's plenty of time, and maybe even enough money, to have fun, Mother Nature has other plans.
Best wishes.
Just when ya' get to the time of life when there's plenty of time, and maybe even enough money, to have fun, Mother Nature has other plans.
Best wishes.
Peter M. Eick
Member
Regarding searching the site yourself, I expect that the park service would be very and I mean very unhappy with you for actively searching in a possible arch site with a metal detector or by any other means. They have laws about that and tend to enforce them. Same with the BLM. Having dealt extensively with arch sites, the feds and national lands, the feds do not like you digging up arch sites or even knowing where they are.
rcmodel
Member in memoriam
Yes, I expected as much.
I doubt they would even tell you what part of the park the rifle was found in.
Let alone go digging up the area.
And 77,180 acres is a lot of park to go poking around in if you didn't know where to poke!
Anyway hopefully, they have already done a through metal detector search of the site themselves as they have an on-site Archaeologist.
We will see what she says when she emails me back.
rc
I doubt they would even tell you what part of the park the rifle was found in.
Let alone go digging up the area.
And 77,180 acres is a lot of park to go poking around in if you didn't know where to poke!
Anyway hopefully, they have already done a through metal detector search of the site themselves as they have an on-site Archaeologist.
We will see what she says when she emails me back.
rc
This is in my stomping grounds and I can tell you that one juniper looks a lot like another. My guess is that the rifle was set aside with expectations to retrieve it later, probably on the same trip, possibly with an interval of only a few hours.
They came back and couldn't find it.
There are many locationa in the desert that I know very well, and they will still confound me.
There was a old hunting cabin in the very remote High Uintah's that had a late 1800's Winchester on the wall for decades. Probably left there by a hunter that got tired of lugging it up there every season. People left it alone until the late 1980's when it vanished. I like to think that the original owner finally took it home, but that is probably not the case.
They came back and couldn't find it.
There are many locationa in the desert that I know very well, and they will still confound me.
There was a old hunting cabin in the very remote High Uintah's that had a late 1800's Winchester on the wall for decades. Probably left there by a hunter that got tired of lugging it up there every season. People left it alone until the late 1980's when it vanished. I like to think that the original owner finally took it home, but that is probably not the case.
g.willikers
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I read an article fairly recently that said that amateurs have made more important archeology discoveries than anyone.
X-Rap
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That's the great fun of history, especially anthropological history. I don't know if they were able to get the serial no. off the gun but for practical speculation I'd say that gun could have been left there anytime between 1873 and at least the 50's.
Not many years ago in the west one could go away and not be missed for a long time and the days of huge search and rescue efforts are a very recent manifestation. The owner could have been hurt, lost, ran out of ammo in a running gunfight or any number of things.
Rusty old guns are more common than one might think, I have heard of them in out house pits, in walls of houses, hid on beams in barns, grown around in trees. You won't get around the SW to long without hearing stories of locals finding bodies with complete outfits laying in caves and under overhangs.
Not many years ago in the west one could go away and not be missed for a long time and the days of huge search and rescue efforts are a very recent manifestation. The owner could have been hurt, lost, ran out of ammo in a running gunfight or any number of things.
Rusty old guns are more common than one might think, I have heard of them in out house pits, in walls of houses, hid on beams in barns, grown around in trees. You won't get around the SW to long without hearing stories of locals finding bodies with complete outfits laying in caves and under overhangs.
50 Shooter
member
Oh come on! We all know it was the RC gang that had been robbing banks in that area back in the day. Old RC didn't realize he had run his rifle dry with in the shootout with the posse that was coming down hard on them.
RC tossed the rifle down drew his six guns and went to work, both guns blazin and hot lead flying. In the pursuing gun battle RC forgot to pick his rifle back up. He vowed one day to fetch it up but that's another tell of another gun fight.
RC tossed the rifle down drew his six guns and went to work, both guns blazin and hot lead flying. In the pursuing gun battle RC forgot to pick his rifle back up. He vowed one day to fetch it up but that's another tell of another gun fight.
jmorris
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Could have been in a leather scabbard on horse back, fell out, noticed missing hours later when the owner dismounted.
Ever lost your keys in your house? Now think about a rifle over who knows how much land, like loosing a needle in a stack of needles.
Ever lost your keys in your house? Now think about a rifle over who knows how much land, like loosing a needle in a stack of needles.
Bull Nutria
Member
No way it fell out of scabbard and rested barrel up against that tree. It was placed there by a human.the stock was 4 inches deep in leaf litter and dirt.
Bull
Bull
Tommygunn
Member
Bull Nutria said:
If it had fallen there 129 years ago, why couldn't it wind up 4" deep in leaf litter and dirt after 13 decades?
I'm not buying the story (I have no pet theories of my own) but I am wondering how you reached your conclusion.
rcmodel
Member in memoriam
Does this look like it fell out of a saddle scabbard??
Rifle as found.
Somebody, be it Indian, prospector, or outlaw on the run leaned there, empty, against this tree.
Many miles from civilization, in dry hostile country many years ago
And never returned for it, for some unknown reason?
Again, an empty rifle in that country defies all logic to me, unless there were a series of unfortunate events leading up to it being empty?
rc
Rifle as found.
Somebody, be it Indian, prospector, or outlaw on the run leaned there, empty, against this tree.
Many miles from civilization, in dry hostile country many years ago
And never returned for it, for some unknown reason?
Again, an empty rifle in that country defies all logic to me, unless there were a series of unfortunate events leading up to it being empty?
rc
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