Winchester 97 or clone?

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thebluemax

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Forgive me if this has been answered before. I am looking to buy a new to me shotgun. I want either a take down winchester 97 or norinco 97. My quesions are...assuming the gun has been modified by a gunsmith to fire 2 3/4 shells , would it be safe to fire buckshot,steel shot, etc in the gun? I found a replacement barrel if I want the riot configuration for the take down but I am unsure if I could put a longer barrel on the norinco. Anyone ever tried to put a longer barrel on a norinco/ttn/billerica/emf 97>?
 
Norinco hasn't made the '97 in a couple of years, and the ones being offered now have been in a warehouse in China since they stopped making them. TTN also went out of business, and EMF bought the TTN guns that passed inspection when Lou Smith made his last trip to China two years ago and tested all the guns they made for TTN. Lou told me he passed about half of the guns after firing all of them, and doesn't know what happened to the guns he rejected. All the Chinese Model 97's I've seen have been solid frame, which means changing a barrel would be difficult.

As for me, I prefer the original Model 97. Between my wife and I, we have six of them. She has two solid frame guns, and I have four take-down guns, with one being a Black Diamond Trap Gun. All of our 97's have had the chambers reamed and forcing cones polished for modern shells.

I wouldn't shoot steel shot through the original guns, and I don't know about the Chinese guns. Buckshot shouldn't be a problem with any of them, though.

Hope this helps.

Fred
 
I was leaning towards a take down because if I wanted a shorter barrel or to build a riot gun I could replace the barrel and put a shroud on. But every original I find is full choke, is that safe to fire buckshot in?
 
All the original 97's I've seen have had full chokes, with the exception of the Riot and Guard guns, which were choked cylinder bore and had short barrels. I personally wouldn't shoot 00 buck through any full choke gun, no matter the brand, but that's a personal opinion, and nothing more.

When I was rangemaster for our department, I fired hundreds of rounds of 00 buck through our Model 870's, but they were all either 18" or 20" guns, with cylinder bore chokes (no choke). The problem with shooting 00 buck through a tight choke, as I see it, is the large shot won't compress like small shot will. Our loads were 2 3/4" Magnum 00 Buck, with 12 pellets. It's an outstanding round for it's intended purpose, but not meant for full chokes.

I don't know if Numrich still carries them, but they used to have a Model 97 replacement barrel for around $120. They were new barrels, and I don't know who made them. I bought one, but traded it off for something else a couple of years ago.

Hope this helps.

Fred
 
need some mod.97/clone help

Howdy, I have a TNN that i purchased used. It doesn't lock when the action is closed. I was told by someone here that cowboy action shooters sometimes have a gunsmith disengage the lock/release button on the side to allow them to shoot faster in comp. This fella told me that a gunsmith could re-engage it. I took it to a gunsmith that I trust but hes unsure about how to do it. I told him I would check back here to see if I could get any info. He thought there might be a method to do this without tearing it apart completely. Any help or info out there that I could relay to him would be appreciated. Thanks, Delgue
 
Delgue --- here is a link to "coyote cap " -- he went to China and had a major input in making/redesigning the 2nd and 3rd gen. Norinco 97s -- a phone call/email to him and he can tell you ANYTHING you need to know about Norincos.

LINK = http://www.coyotecap.com/index2.htm

BlueMax ---- as ReloaderFred said , the Nor. 97s were all made with the solid frame and would need a gunsmith to change brls. -------- as to your OP , what would you be doing with the 97 ?? I shoot Cowboy Action ALOT and I started with a org.Win. Black Diamound --- BUT --in cowboy action , we shoot more rounds in one season then most bird hunters shoot in 20 years !!! Add the fact that a lot of the org. 97s are close to 100 years old and I thought that a"modern made"Norinco would be better for MY NEEDS.

I did have a long brl. Norinco for awhile , think it was a 26" brl. --- again , Coyote Cap is a MASTER Gunsmith with both org. and clone copies of 97s --- he can ansewer any questions you may have.
 
Coyote3855,

That would be a rare 97, from what I've seen. I've looked at hundreds of 97's in use at SASS matches, and on vendor's tables, but I've never seen one marked from the factory as "Modified". Congratulations!

Fred
 
I received my M97W (IAC/Norinco from SOG @ $319) Wednesday and couldn't be happier. I'll have to post a review after I get the chance to shoot it. The wood is far nicer than I expected and the fit and finish (exterior, anyways) is on par with American counterparts. I was expecting something somewhat "rough" and this M97 certainly isn't (albiet the action is a bit stiff).
I am absolutely pleased with this purchase; it's a great shotgun for the money.
 
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snowdog congrats on your purchase, i recently purchased a norinco trench gun 97. build quality is good i might just get me a lever action norinco shotgun, best part is holding the trigger back and just pump away:) some pics of my 97

180-1.jpg

190.jpg
 
found a replacement barrel if I want the riot configuration for the take down but I am unsure
Click to expand...
Be aware that changing the barrel on a 97 Winchester take-down is not as simple as changing the barrel on a more modern gun like an 870.

You are basically talking about the whole front half of the gun being the replacement barrel.
That includes the magazine tube, pump iron & forearm, headspace ring, interrupt threads, etc.

Fitting a new barrel to a Model 97 is a gunsmith job, not a kitchen table swap out.

rc
 
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thanks, purchased used and did not come with the bayonet but still lookin. cost me $450
 
interesting since I picked up one tonight. the ser# is in the 39,000 range which by my book makes it 1898. Hardly any finish left but should make a nice wall hanger or something to play with. But for only $100 what the heck. parts are worth more than that I would think.

read some of your other post so will check the forcing cone to see if it has been modified to shoot star crimped loads.

thanks jon
 
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I have a brand new trench bayonet. it is the one made in the 1960's for vietnam. would look cool on a shotgun and I have been keeping my eye out for one.
 
I used mine a lot when I was farming to shoot blackbirds and it was great for that job. Flock shooting didn't require precise aim but just getting as much lead into the air in the shortest amount of time and the slam-fire feature was the one time that feature really came in handy. Of course the cylinder bore gave me a good spread to maximize the area the pattern would cover to knock a few extra birds down and a crippled bird that would squak a warning to others was a bit more valuable than a dead one so that was another benefit to that gun as well.
 
Most Norinco products function well. I would not call them Win. quality. Norinco quality control is not the best, but I have never encountered anything Norinco that was junk. either.
 
Most Norinco products function well. I would not call them Win. quality. Norinco quality control is not the best, but I have never encountered anything Norinco that was junk. either.
Click to expand...

QC is only as good as what you are willing to pay for it.

These shotguns are being made for IAC and TTN on a low budget so they can sold for around $350 and they can still make a good profit. If they wanted Norinco to make higher quality copy I am sure they could. It would cost more and IAC and TTN would have to increase their budget come up with more money to invest.

Winchester couldn't make a 97 of the same quality as the Norinco copy and it retail for $350.


GC
 
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delgue


If you look at the lifter on the left side when open you or your smith will notice a piece of metal appx 1/8" wide that fits in a slot, It is appx the same length as the lifter. Look to see if someone peened it in place with a center punch, This is the most common method for CAS shooters to keep the action from locking up.
 
I too wouldn't mind getting a 1897. I am not sure if I would get a Winchester or Norinco. The model I want is the one with the heatshield. Is this the "riot gun", or "trench gun"?

What exact version of the Winchster 1897 would be the one with the heatsheild? What is the going rate for a decent shooter?

How is the quality of the Norinco? How hard would it be to install a heatshield on a base model Norinco 97?
 
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The trench gun had the heat shield / bayonet lug & sling swivels.
("Trench gun" as used by the military in WWI trench warfare.)

Riot guns are just a normal slick barrel with a bead sight.

Shooting condition sporting 97's around these parts continue to show up in the $250 - $350 range, with really cherry ones going for perhaps $500 or more.

A real U.S. GI Trench Gun with GI markings, not a fake one someone cobbled together, would be worth several thousand dollars. Real Riot Guns with the correct 20" barrel markings would also be very expensive, although perhaps not to the extent of the Trench Gun.

I believe your Norinco question was answered by ReloaderFred in post #2, and others.

rc
 
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