Winchester M1917

[JP1954]

I'm looking at a Winchester M1917 rifle. Based on what I have found so far, I "think" it is chambered for 30-06 but I am not sure. I cannot find anything on the breech or barrel in regards to the cartridge. Does anyone know how to determine the cartridge for certain? Does anyone know if these rifles were made in more than one cartridge size? It was made in 1918 according to the serial number.

 

[BADUNAME13]

Originally yes, 30-06.

However, the 1914 is very similar, and chambered in 303

Also many were rechambered.

 

[Langenator]

If it says "US Property", it's almost certainly .30-06

 

[BADUNAME13]

A guy I know has a 1917... looks EXACTLY like a issue rifle... but it was rebarreled to 7mm Mag...

Just a FYI.

 

[Hoppy590]

do me a favor. if you have a full stock and get the strange desire to "sporterize" this rifle. il give you my "sporter " stock and some green for your Milstock.

1917's are NICE rifles. does the one your looking at still have the ears? ( flanges on the top of the sight base thingy)

 

[JP1954]

If it says "US Property", it's almost certainly .30-06

__________________
It says "US model of 1917"

A

guy I know has a 1917... looks EXACTLY like a issue rifle... but it was rebarreled to 7mm Mag...

I would guess that the entire barrel and receiver had to be replaced for a conversion such as that. If that were the case, 1).....I wouldn't think it would still say "US model of 1917" on the receiver. Also, 2)....I would expect that they restamped the new cartridge size somewhere on it. Do you know if #1 or #2 is present?

does the one your looking at still have the ears? ( flanges on the top of the sight base thingy)

The rifle I'm viewing appears original including stock. Dark wood that runs to within 4-6 inches of the muzzle. I'm not sure what you mean by "ears". The rear sight does have rather high sides to it which I guess kinda resemble ears. The front sight resembles the M1 Garand style sight.

 

[Cosmoline]

Any initials stamped on the stock?

 

[jlmurphy]

If the rifle is still in military form or even if sporterized somewhat, the barrel will be stamped with a date code and the ordinance "flaming bomb" insignia. The only caliber this rifle was chambered in was .30-06.

 

[JesseL]

To be absolutely sure what this rifle is chambered for, you'll need to have a chamber cast made.

Even with the original military marked barrel it's possible for it to have had a larger chamber cut. I inherited a Smith-Corona 03-A3 barreled action (with the "flaming bomb" on the barrel) that had been rechambered to .308 Norma Magnum.

Odds are that it's a .30-06, but you don't get a lot of chances to be wrong about that sort of thing.

 

[Hoppy590]

The rear sight does have rather high sides to it which I guess kinda resemble ears.

yup those are ears. if the rear comes up to a rounded point significantly higher than the front. then theyare good.
http://www.surplusrifle.com/m1917/index.asp

now comes the fun part. checking to see if its an all original maker.
many rifles will sport a Eddystone reciever. a winchester bolt, remington magazine.... etc.

use http://m1903.com/m1917markings.htm to find where/ IF Winchester marked the various parts to determine if its all orig

( not all original isnt a bad thing. but all original raises "collector" value)

 

[JP1954]

The top of the barrel near the muzzle has "E" over a flaming bomb which is over 5-18.

The only markings I found on the stock were on the front tip of the stock up near the muzzle......." W " over " 137 ". I could not find any other markings anywhere on the exterior surfaces of the wood.

The front top of the receiver has " US. model of 1917 Winchester"....
The side portion of the left side of the receiver has a flaming bomb. The top portion of the left side of the receiver has 3 very tiny markings that I cannot identify. All I can tell for sure is that they are not nicks or scratches.....

I just had an idea and tried it out. I removed the bolt and took a wooden dole and marked it at the back edge of the chamber and then slid it into the chamber until I could feel it just meet the beginning of the shoulder and I marked it again. I pulled it out and put it next to a 30-06 cartridge. It appeared to line up. I then slid the cartridge into position on the face of the removed bolt and it appeared to be a match so I next dropped the cartridge into the chamber and it appeared to fit well. Finally, I put the bolt back in and chambered/ejected the round. It seemed fine and there were no unusual marks on the casing or bullet.

Should I still maybe take a chamber casting for a final answer or does the above seem enough to conclude it's an '06? If I should get a casting, is that something that needs to be done by a gunsmith or is there a way to do that at home?

 

[4fingermick]

This a pic of my P14, which is essentially the same as an M17.

It was mentioned earlier that you should try and avoid chopping up a rifle that is in complete military trim. These are quiet valuable now and no doubt a mil collector/shooter would pay ou handsomly for it. The Winchesters are the rarest and most valuable. I have been shooting these for years and have owned a lot and I have never seen a Winy in full battle trim. I bought a sporterised one recently and it was a sniper, very rare. I gave it to a mate who restored it.

It will have a W in front of the serial numver if it is a Winchester, If it is a Winchester, look at the rear sight. If it has an adjuster knob atop the sight with a three pointed Mercedes style star, it is a sniper. Well over a million M17's were made, only 2001 Winchester snipers were made. Worth mega bucks!!







Ignore the rear sight, that is a volley sight, it is an additional sight, used in conjunction with this (extra) front sight for long range volleys.



The old farts that were running the armies at the time had a lot of old ideas, volley shooting was one of them. They also had a extra swivel at the front called a 'piling' swivel, which allowed three rifle to be neatly stood up in front of the tents. Modern warfare moved a lot quicker and they soon stopped that sort of nonsense.

Greta rifle, enjoy.

 

[Hoppy590]

'piling' swivel, which allowed three rifle to be neatly stood up in front of the tents.

stacking swivels survived a while after 1917. they are on the K31 till end of production. (1951?)

iv seen photos of recruits in training with stacked rifles (m16's). anyone with recent Corp or Army training know if they still stack?

 

[Langenator]

Stacking is still done, but they use the sling instead of a stacking hook.

It's mostly done during PT (physical training), at least since the Army reinstated 'weapon immersion' (meaning that the privates take their weapons pretty much everywhere). Push-ups, sit-ups, and especially pull-ups are tough to do whilst holding a rifle.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

I would guess that the entire barrel and receiver had to be replaced for a conversion such as that.

The barrel, yes. The receiver, no.

The M1917 was based on the P14, which in turn was simply a P13 with slight modifications for the .303 round.

The P13 was designed for a modified version of the .280 Ross -- which was essentially an unbelted 7mm magnum. To convert the M1917 to 7mm Remington Magnum, it must be rebarreled and the bolt face opened up, and slight changes made to the extractor.

To convert the M1917 to .300 Holland and Holland is even simpler, and was being done back in the 1920s and '30s.

 

[4fingermick]

The 308 Norma Magnum was a popular conversion here and is an excellent cartridge. If Winchester had of bougth it out instead of Norma, we'd probably be still be shooting it. I know a guy who has been using one since well before I met him in the mid70s and he uses it pretty much for eveything. Last time I saw him, he had retired the old M17 which was a rechambered bubba which went through several barrels in it's active hunting life and was replaced by a Mauser which has also seen more than one barrel. He hunts a lot in Northern Territory and North Queensland, shoots hundreds of feral donkeys, horses, etc as wel as a lot of deer and Sambar hunting and the odd trip to NZ. Gets his money's worth out of a rifle that boy.

 

[TGeorge]

M1917

I bought one last year.

Can I use modern commercial .30-06 ammo in it? Like Winchester .30-06 springfield 150 gr or OMC ,30-06 150 gr ?

I had it checked out by a gunsmith and he said it was in fireable condition, so I guess its safe to assume its a .30-06. The barrel is a Johnson Automatic and the other parts are Eddystone.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

I guess its safe to assume its a .30-06. The barrel is a Johnson Automatic and the other parts are Eddystone.

The Model 1917 was chambered for the .30-06 and is perfeclty safe to use with any .30-06 ammunition.

Your rifle has been re-barreled. The Johnson Automatic company didn't exist in 1917. Therefore it may be in some other caliber. Did your gunsmith say it was chambered for .30-06?

 

[GD]

Your barrel was made in May of 1918 and is an Eddystone barrel. Yes, it probably was rebarreled at the end of the great war with a left over barrel. I don't consider that a negative at all. If it is like mine, you will enjoy its accuracy and power. Got a deer at 175 yards with open sights two years ago.

 

[Jim Watson]

JP1954,
It sure sounds like you have a plain vanilla US M1917 of Winchester make with a replacement Eddystone barrel. If it is still in USGI configuration it is most likely still .30-06.