Winchester Model 70 Feeding Issues

[MausHunter]

Hello, all!

I've been having this issue with my pre-64 Model 70 since I first got it, so I'm planning to send it back to Winchester for servicing soon. I was wanting some input from folks to see if what I'm experiencing is normal, within the bounds of acceptability, or is truly not the way it should be.

So when attempting to chamber heavier rounds -- usually around 180 grains or above, having happened with profiles such as Nosler Partitions, Lapua Megas, and even, to a lesser extent, Winchester Super X Power Points -- ammo will load perfectly fine from the right side of the magazine, but when loaded from the left side it will often nose-dive into a flat ridge on the right side of the chamber and get bound up. When I feel it with my fingers it feels like the left side of the chamber (or maybe the area leading from the receiver into the chamber, not sure on terminology) is a smooth ramp leading in, whereas on the right side it is just an abrupt edge that the bullets hang up on.

I guess I'm just curious if there really is a problem, or if this is just the way that Winchesters are and that I need to stick with lighter bullets with it. I've done a few searches on the internet but can never find anything similar.

For extra info, I have this problem with both handloads and factory ammo. I've measured all to verify that they are within SAAMI spec.

I understand different manufacturers and different guns have different size chambers and everything like that, but I feel like it should at least be able to reliably load any bullet within spec. even if it doesn't shoot all of them as accurately. Though, oddly enough, when I single load 200 grain bullets is when this gun is most accurate, but then I've got a single shot Winchester Model 70, which isn't really what I signed up for.

Am I making a big deal out of nothing and should just stick with lighter bullets? Or is this worth sending back to the manufacturer?

Thanks in advance for any input...

 

[Robert]

Off the top of my head, and without seeing the rifle or feeling rth operation, I'd say no, that is not normal. Can you get a pic of the chamber area you are talking about? How are you running the bolt? Are you running it with authority or babying it or somewhere in the middle? I've had rifles that will do sort of the same thing when I ran the bolt real slow but at speed worked fine.

 

[edwardware]

. . . heavier rounds -- usually around 180 grains or above. . . ammo will load perfectly fine from the right side of the magazine, but when loaded from the left side it will often nose-dive into a flat ridge on the right side of the chamber and get bound up.

Yes, that's a problem, but:

. . .pre-64 Model 70 since I first got it

I would be surprised if they'll work on a 54+ year old gun. If they will, they're great; I just had a Win M70 returned from Winchester service and they were very good to deal with.

You might need to find a smith.

Edit: oh, a new 'pre-64'.

 

[sage5907]

It would help to know the cartridge. You either have a weak spring in your box magazine or the extractor is binding on the rear of the cartridge. More than likely it is a weak spring. If the spring is weak it allows the rear of the cartridge to tip downward when it goes forward and it binds on the top of the chamber. They usually bind worse from the left side of the magazine. I would look to eBay for a replacement spring but some of the springs being sold are sold because they are bad. Don't buy a spring from someone who says they have several springs for sale. The extractor doesn't engage the rim until the cartridge starts into the chamber but if there is a flat spot on the bottom of the extractor it could bind on the cartridge rim. A flat spot can be narrowed with a small file. Just make sure the rim slips easily into the extractor as the cartridge goes forward. Your problem should be an easy fix. If the problem continues try reducing the overall length of the cartridge and see if that helps.

 

[MausHunter]

Thanks for all the responses.

Clarification:
Pre-64 Model 70 is a new production model. So it is right at a year old but has the pre-64 style controlled round feed.

It is a 30-06.

It hangs up so deeply on the right side that no matter with how much authority I cycle the bolt it all yields the same result. Times that it's "close" (heavy round, seated deeply) I can cycle it with authority, but still feel a bit of resistance. I believe doing this deforms the bullet slightly ad I end up with two groups -- those loaded from the left side of the chamber and those loaded from the right - a few inches apart.

I've put a pic on (or tried to) to show how it binds on the right side of the chamber.

Whether it comes from the left or the right it doesn't load straight in, but goes in at a little angle. It doesn't matter when loaded from the right side of the magazine since the left side has a gradual slope in toward the chamber. But from the left side it does because the right side is doesn't have ANY slope at all.



Hope this helps. Thanks again!

 

[Slamfire]

Since you don't have a pre 64, maybe Winchester will deal with it. I don't know if they will work on their classic actions, that is those from the USRAC period, that company went bankrupt.

Let me suggest that what you have is a problem with the right receiver rail. And it is not a problem that can be corrected by you or any gunsmith because material has been removed.

One the top is a good M70 classic receiver. The rails are close to parallel all the way up on the feed ramp. Cartridges feed perfectly from the right and left sides of the magazine.



This is a USRAC period M70 classic, one of the first in stainless steel. I had this rifle built into a target rifle. I bought a complete rifle because actions were not available, did not shoot the thing because I assumed the rifle being a factory rifle, that it would be good. The gunsmith trued the receiver face, trued the lugs, clip slotted the action, and installed a Krieger 308 barrel. This action is a short action. When I used the rifle as an across the course rifle, rounds on the left side of the magazine would nose dive into the extractor cut on the barrel. This ruined my rapid fire scores.



It took time to figure what was wrong, but the factory cut the right receiver rail when they milled the feed ramp. That cut on the right receiver rail allowed the bullet to move too far to the right before magazine release of the cartridge. When magazine release did occur, the bullet tip was still too far to the right to straighten out as the cartridge moved forward, and the bullet ended up diving into the extractor groove.

The M70 breeching copies that of the M1903. The back of the barrel is a cone, this M1903 barrel is upside down, the left of the cone is uncut, the right side has the extractor groove.



I called USRAC Customer service and when they found out all the work I had done to the action, they literally laughed at me and told me in no uncertain terms, they were not going to touch my rifle. USRAC went bankrupt, and I hope the clowns in USRAC Customer service had a back slapping good time in the unemployment line.

I eventually made the rifle into a prone rifle and it is a single shot only. Feeds fine from the right side of the magazine because the cone is uncut.

I would recommend calling Winchester and see if they will fix this with a new receiver, because that is what it will take. No one can weld material back on that thin rail without burning through the receiver. If Winchester laughs at you and won't stand behind their product, you can try seating the bullet deeper and maybe that will work. I tried that and feed reliability improved, but not 100% because the timing was fundamentally altered when Winchester ruined my receiver. Another alternative is to only use the bullets that work. And hope that their manufacturer's don't discontinue them, or alter their profiles.

 

[sage5907]

I agree with Slamfire, I tried a cartridge in one of my rifles just to watch it load and when it moved forward it was in alignment with the center of the chamber. I have had feeding issues with pre 64 Model 70's but it was always a weak spring, extractor, or cartridge length problem. It's a real problem to have a receiver where the rails are cut wrong. The only way I can see to make it feed better is to use sharp pointed bullets with non metal tips and to reduce the overall cartridge length. The plastic/teflon/whatever tips were made for rifles that mar the bullet tips which is more common on push feed rifles. pre 64 Winchester Model 70 rifles are some of the smoothest feeding rifles and feeding problems are usually easy to solve. Good luck,.

 

[Bwana John]

My post-post (?) '64 stainless "classic" .375 h&h controlled feed bolt needed to be run with authority when I first got it used or it would hang up.

After polishing the underside of the feed rails, the feed ramps, and the inside of the extractor with a cray-tex polishing cone the rifle now feeds cartridges at any speed of bolt manipulation.

I only polished, I did NOT change any geometry !!!

 

[sage5907]

What I would do to try to solve this problem is to shim the magazine box. There is a space of about 1/8 inch between the follower and the side of the magazine box. I would first take a piece of cardboard about 1/8 inch thick and cut it to fit the right side of the magazine box which is 3 3/8 inch in length, 1 1/4 inches tall on the rear, and 1 1/8 inch tall on the front. Lower the floorplate and stick this piece of cardboard on the right side of the follower. This will hold the follower 1/8 inch to the left. Try to chamber a cartridge and see what happens. If it works cut a piece of metal the same size and insert it in the same place and if it works it could be attached permanently inside the magazine box with JB Weld. If 1/8 inch is not enough the follower could be ground on the left to a narrower width. The dang rifle needs to cycle flawlessly. Just an idea!

 

[MausHunter]

Thanks for the replies, all! I ended up shipping the rifle back under warranty (Winchester paid for the label). If they say there's something to be fixed, hopefully they'll fix it. If I get it back unchanged I'll just have to find a load that works that I can live with, and maybe at that point start playing with polishing or shims (this from the guy who once took 24 hours to restring a guitar -- I have a feeling I won't REALLY mess with polishing or shims...). Thanks again!

 

[Slamfire]

I ended up shipping the rifle back under warranty (Winchester paid for the label).

Smart thing to do. Once it is out of warranty, that's when you start trying the heroic measures. Which can break things.