KansasSasquatch
Member
That only effected the supply of Universal Clays. It didn't effect Clays nor International Clays. That is according to ADI's website, the Australian company that makes all three.
Winchester Powder
- Thread starter rduckwor
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FROGO207
Member
^^^RE post # 25 The test results that were reported were NOT developed from the same universal test firearm or at the same time or with the exact same lots of components. So different results reported from each combo---no big hairy deal.
Same as two rifles with sequential serial numbers not having most accurate load being the same in both. This has been proven over and over again. A reloading manual is just a guide of what worked the best for THEM that particular day with their particular components and should also work safely in yours if you work up to max. I have never heard personally of anyone getting hurt from using a published starting load----BUT saw a 9MM pistol damaged by someone that used a MAX load without bothering to work up to it. YMMV
Same as two rifles with sequential serial numbers not having most accurate load being the same in both. This has been proven over and over again. A reloading manual is just a guide of what worked the best for THEM that particular day with their particular components and should also work safely in yours if you work up to max. I have never heard personally of anyone getting hurt from using a published starting load----BUT saw a 9MM pistol damaged by someone that used a MAX load without bothering to work up to it. YMMVThat's because they used to be different powders. Now, they are not. Powders are reformulated all the time. Hodgdon makes both, and pours them into different cans. Unfortunately, the info is still out there...fortunately the powders (back when different) have been similar enough not to make a safety issue....this is one of many reasons behinf "start low and work your way up.
Another way popular powder is Unique, which also has been reformulated several times to burn "cleaner."
Russellc
Another way popular powder is Unique, which also has been reformulated several times to burn "cleaner."
Russellc
zxcvbob
Member
Look for *unpopular* powders, and learn to love 'em: Green Dot, Herco, 700X, PB, Solo 1000, etc.
JRH6856
Member
RE Post #27
While the test conditions are probably not the same, the powders are almost certainly from different lots if they have different names. The propellant data in QuickLOAD comes from the manufacturer or brand holder so one could expect it to be correct and not a guess. QL shows different data for the "identical" powders listed by ArchAngelCD in post #23. But the differences between the powders in each case are no more than one might expect to find between different lots of the same powder.
Interestingly, the one consistency in the comparison of QL data is that the Winchester powders are all just a little hotter than their Hodgdon counterpart. Perhaps they are packaged that way intentionally?
While the test conditions are probably not the same, the powders are almost certainly from different lots if they have different names. The propellant data in QuickLOAD comes from the manufacturer or brand holder so one could expect it to be correct and not a guess. QL shows different data for the "identical" powders listed by ArchAngelCD in post #23. But the differences between the powders in each case are no more than one might expect to find between different lots of the same powder.
Interestingly, the one consistency in the comparison of QL data is that the Winchester powders are all just a little hotter than their Hodgdon counterpart. Perhaps they are packaged that way intentionally?
FROGO207
Member
Or someone "enhanced" their results a small bit to get better sales of their product way back when.
As a rule I use the data from around the time the propellant was made to build my loads with. I have an assortment of reloading books from the 40's by Belding and Mull/Ideal/others on up to the present day manufacturers with tons of data to choose from.
As a rule I use the data from around the time the propellant was made to build my loads with. I have an assortment of reloading books from the 40's by Belding and Mull/Ideal/others on up to the present day manufacturers with tons of data to choose from.
ArchAngelCD
Member.
I'm completely done here! Why in the world would a powder distributor and powder manufacturer lie and say both powders were always the same for no reason? (especially the manufacturer St. Mark's)
"There are none so blind as those who refuse to see..."
Stick a fork in me!
Lj1941
Member
It looks to me like Winchester(Hodgdon) is trying to phase out W 748. They don't list it in their latest data for most/all 223 Rem loads. It is my go to powder for super accurate hunting loads. Has anybody else noticed this or has an explaination?
I'm with you, they used to be different is what I understand to be the truth. They probably are just tired of being queried on it, and since they are the same now they just tell one story? Now, especially with the internet, the new and old info is all over the place. I dont really care if they are the same, speaking of HP-38 vs Win 231 I would just like a 40 lbs keg of each....enough to last if that bird brain Billary gets elected! Plus, most any (and all as far as I know) constantly reformulate powders...I cant imagine Winchester or Hodgdon havent.
Russellc
JRH6856
Member
A couple months ago, 748 was the only Winchester powder on the shelves in three stores and the only thing I saw that would come close to working in 6.8SPC.
ArchAngelCD
Member.
From everything I have read from Hodgdon they are completely dedicated to keeping Winchester brand powders strong. When they came out with a new action pistol powder, AutoComp, they released it under the Winchester brand, not Hodgdon. Considering Winchester has only 3 rifle powders and nothing to replace it's fastest rifle powder W748, I highly doubt it will be discontinued.
Then again, they made the same assertions about the IMR powder line but a few months Hodgdon moved most of their handgun powders to the Hodgdon line and announced the remaining, the SR powders, would be discontinued at the end of 2014 so who on the outside really knows?
Lj1941
Member
I understand that they are not discontinuing the Winchester line of powders. My question is why they aren't including it in their latest data for many of the most popular loads in what is IMO its most popular caliber the 223 Rem/556x45 Nato?
JRH6856
Member
The Hodgdon Reloading page list 7 loads for 7 different weight bullets for .223 using W748. (there is no separate listing for 5.56mm)
ArchAngelCD
Member.
I agree, Hodgdon does list 7 different loads starting with a 50gr bullet going up to a 69gr bullet.
BTW, in reality there really is no reason for a separate listing for the 5.56mm. Have you ever seen 5.56mm dies?
JRH6856
Member
I know. I just added it because it was referenced in Post #38 to which I was replying w/o quoting.
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