Winchester Super X: What????

[wsryno]

Okay, so I bought a box of Winchester Super X in .308 to try out a new-to-me rifle this weekend. I have worked up a few loads with some range pickups, but for the first rounds I wanted no surprises so I decided to buy factory ammo and was hoping to re-use the brass. But look, what's the deal with that crimp job around the cannelure? I can't re-use this brass! I've bought Winchester new brass, but never Winchester factory ammo, and I'll surely never buy Winchester factory ammo again. How long have they been doing this? Am I the only one off-put by that crimp? Maybe I should have waited till I calmed down to post this thread!! ARRRgghh!

Not to get picky, but isn't that a nice ding at the bottom of the neck on a new cartridge?

 

[cfullgraf]

Crimp looks ok to me. I am not sure what you see wrong with it.

The ding in the side will blow out on firing. Not problems there.

I would re-use the brass.

I will agree I would prefer to not see dings on a new cartridge. Maybe the ding happened after it left the factory.

 

[MMCSRET]

There is no reason in that picture that indicates you can't reuse that case after it has been properly fired and processed. It may be slightly short but firing should iron out any impressions that are giving you doubt. Shoot it!!!!!!!!!!

 

[NeuseRvrRat]

don't reload it.

ship the fired brass to me.

 

[joustin]

That is exactly what the Lee FCD does when it is used.

Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk

 

[rcmodel]

+1

Looks exactly like Winchester is using a Lee FCD collet die to crimp.

Bottom line is though, after you shoot it, most of the crimp will iron out when you resize & expand it.

And who knows?
It may be too long, and you will have to trim it anyway!

rc

 

[x_wrench]

i have been reloading crimped cases since i began reloading back in the early eighties. there is absolutely nothing wrong with that brass that would keep anyone from reloading it.

 

[Josh45]

Nothing wrong with the brass and I agree, It does look like the Lee FCD is being used. I know first hand as I have done this to some 30-30 rounds. Never had that problem with pistol tho

 

[rcmodel]

Ammo factorys have been using collet-crimp dies for so long Teddy Rosevelt probably shot some .30 Gov on his way up San Juan hill with it.

The advantage to them is it is not at all case length critical like a typical rifle roll crimp in a loading die is.
So rejects or waste are not probuced due to normal case length variations.

rc

 

[wsryno]

Clearly I'm in the minority on this. I've only been buying factory ammo for the past 25 years, Federal mostly and occasionally Remington, and I've never seen that "6-sided" crimp with flats.

I have a Lee FCD for .270 and it produces an even crimp all the way around, no flats. At least, I've not adjusted it deep enough to create flats.

HOLY CATS rcmodel, 31,187 posts in 4 1/2 years? That's 48 posts per day! I wonder if that's a record?

I'll give it a go this weekend and see what happens... Trimming can be my friend...

 

[mtrmn]

No offense, but are you new to reloading? I would think at least SOME of the "range brass" loads you spoke of would have been crimped in the same manner when you picked them up. This is absolutely normal and has no effect on your reloads unless you're shooting in benchrest matches. I really don't see how it could hurt even then.

 

[wsryno]

Yes new to reloading, no offense taken, I've only been reloading for about 4 months, I've never seen this crimp that's why I posted. I had only a dozen range pickups, all were Federal brass and none had crimp marks.

I've only been around hunters for the past 25 years, so for rifle shooting we go to the range a few times/year to sight in and practice. Maybe 30 rounds/year tops and until 6 months ago I only had one rifle in 270. Great rifle but it was lonley Now it has a few friends to spend time with, including a new-to-me 308. My hunting buddies shoot 243, 30-06, 30-30, 308, and in all those years hunting with them I've never seen this type of crimp.

 

[cfullgraf]

I've never seen that "6-sided" crimp with flats.

.

Flats, what flats? Are you talking about the small bumps spaced around the crimp?

That is typical of a collet style crimper. A collet style crimper has fingers that are compressed against the mouth of the case. The bumps would be located at the space between the fingers.

The bumps in your photo are probably more pronounced than usual since crimp did not line up with the cannelure and the diameter under the crimp was larger than usual. The brass had to go somewhere so it got scwooged (a high tech term) between the fingers. It could not get crimped into the cannelure.

I am sure Wikipedia would have a reasonable description of what a collet looks like. They are used in many applications in the mechanic/tool/machining world.

 

[Certaindeaf]

.HOLY CATS rcmodel, 31,187 posts in 4 1/2 years? That's 48 posts per day..

You should be thankful.

 

[13red56]

Like most that have posted I to have seen and used brass like this. It doesn't seem to bother my loading or accuracy. I typically take the brass and trim it to see if any of it will trim out. You shouldn't have any problems though well I havnt yet.

 

[helotaxi]

I've used lots of .223 brass that was crimped exactly like that. Total non-issue.

 

[mtrmn]

Reloading disease is like black rifle disease-you now have it and there is no cure.

 

[powell&hyde]

.HOLY CATS rcmodel, 31,187 posts in 4 1/2 years? That's 48 posts per day..

Replace the batteries in that calculator your using.....I come up with 18.9 posts per day.

 

[wsryno]

Replace the batteries in that calculator your using.....I come up with 18.9 posts per day.

Somebody's paying attention. Pilot error; divided by 12 instead of 30 in last step of calculation. Good this isn't a graded test or a powder measurement .

You should be thankful.

Yes I'm thankful; rcmodel has thoughtfully replied to about every newbie-question-thread I've started .

 

[Hondo 60]

I dunno, when I saw that crimp I thought it was excessive.
But the consensus here is it's perfectly OK.

 

[gamestalker]

The crimp ring is of no concern, I loaded those a bunch of times. After the first couple reloadings most of that crimp ring will get triimed away, and what ever is left of it will just simply fire form away during firing.

And new brass with dings and such is of no concern either. I would however suggest you FL size the new brass before reloading it. New brass is often different lengths, so resize it and then trim to SAAMI trim too length for a better first run through the firearm.

 

[Certaindeaf]

.Yes I'm thankful; rcmodel has thoughtfully replied to about every newbie-question-thread I've started .

Very good. I can see us some time in the future going into the clone shop and being asked "what model would you like?" and saying "I'd like an rc". anyway
That's code for I admire the man.

 

[gamestalker]

When in doubt, ask RC!

If RC doesn't have the answer, than the question was probably flawed.

 

[GooseGestapo]

Yeah, Winchester has been using that type crimp since I can remember and that dates back to the 1960's. Not quite T.R.'s days, but a "long time" now....

An interesting side note on that crimp. When you've loaded them 15 times or so, and have trimmed them 2-3 times, the case will have "grown"and you can keep up with "how much" by how much of the crimp mark is still evident. When the case has "grown" enough that you've "trimmed" all of the original crimp marks out, it's probably time to recycle that case and start with "new" ones.....

Welcome to the reloading fraternity. Yep, you've been "hooked" and there's no cure. I've been "addicted" since 1970....... Got a "Lee loader" for my 14th birthday, along with 250 20ga shotgun wads, 200 primers, and a pound of Unique powder, and 25lbs of #8 shot. Went through that in just a week!!!! Ton's of lead since!!!

If you think that Winchester cartridge is ding'd, wait till you buy some bulk packed Winchester or Remington brass. Some of the cases won't even be useable..... Got some .32/20 cases in sealed factory plastic bag that were crushed.... not even loadable....
Remember, Winchester only loads 2-3 Million of those a year...... So they are handled a bit "rough" at the factory's by high speed equipment. Usually in the tumbling/polishing stages.

 

[Searcher4851]

As so many others have already already posted, there's nothing really wrong with that brass, and it should reload just fine, although it does appear to be a little more collet crimp than I usually see.

As far as rc's average of 18.9 posts per day, I'd like to thank him for taking that much time to contribute here. He's a vast warehouse of knowledge, and his information and or advice has come in very handy for me and many others here.

Thanks rcmodel, you ARE appreciated.