Winchester Supreme SXT ammo for self defense

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I know it's not tested the same way as their "law enforcement" stuff like the Ranger Talons are.

I bought two boxes when I was first testing to see how different brands of hollowpoints fed in my gun, and I've still got a few. Might give it a water-jug test or the like next time I go out shooting.
 
I talked to a Winchester rep who said that since they had to drop the Black Talon they came out with SXT which stands for Same Xact Thing! :D

I like it in 230 grain .45. It has a nice rounded profile that feeds well in my 1911s. Ammolab shows some impressive photos of how well it expands also. I also use Remington Golden Sabre 230 as it also has the rounded profile, and also is at times easier to find and less expensive too. Another small benefit of the GS is that it comes in 25 round boxes which perfectly fill three 8 round magazines and one in the pipe.
 
The SXT's are supposed to pale in comparison to the Ranger-T series LEO ammunition, which is readily available and inexpensive. Why not get the good stuff? (It is perfectly legal to own, the LEO business is just a Winchester policy)

See this thread.

- Gabe
 
I talked to a Winchester rep who said that since they had to drop the Black Talon they came out with SXT which stands for Same Xact Thing!
Click to expand...

That was the original SXT. That doesn't refer to the Supreme SXT which is actually a completely different thing (perhaps it should be called Supreme CDT) than the black talon and it's ancestor, Ranger T (which is also different from the black talon). Supreme SXT literally does not resemble Ranger T or Black Talon in the slightest...that goes for both it's expanded and unexpanded form.

brad cook
 
If you check out some of the other sites that do gelatin testing of ammo, you will find that the SXT line doesn't expand very often in clothed gelatin.

Whether this is a disadvantage or not is a matter of conjecture.

Regards,
Happyguy:D
 
Found this thread in a search. Looking for some good 9mm ammo and got some questions.

Found this page - http://www.ammolab.com/9mm_section1.htm

The win 127gr ranger sxt looks pretty good. Looked around for some and i must say its a bit confusing. What is the difference between this stuff? I've seen the name in the topic of this thread, sxt, ranger t, ranger, ranger sxt, etc. Looked on gunbroker and there are two kinds of 'ranger sxt' 127gr +p+, one 'RA9SXTP' lot, one 'RA9TA' (links below). Any difference? Someone in another thread said sports authority had 'sxt'?

http://gunbroker.com/auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=16762196
http://gunbroker.com/auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=16775145

(The last link apparently sold buy a guy here in the thread mentioned above)

:confused:
 
In the .38 Special snub tests that ran in, "Handguns" about a year ago, Supreme SXT 130 grain ammo delivered one of the best combinations of expansion and adequate penetration. That may not apply to it in other calibers.

Lone Star
 
I carried 165 gr SXT's in my Kahr P40 for awhile. It was the only HP round I could control out of that light pistol. No problems feeding.
 
The 'regular' SXT in .38 +p is the most accurate controllable SD ammo I've run through my 686 revolver. I like 'em. No idea about the Supreme designation though.
 
Clange,

Here's a rundown of all the various incarnations of the Winchester SXT stuff as found at http://www.firearmstactical.com/briefs12.htm.

Black Talon SXT: The original Black Talon handgun bullet. It was introduced in 1991. The cartridge consists of a black colored bullet seated in a nickel-plated case. The black paint-like coating on the bullet is a Winchester proprietary lubricant called Lubalox. The bullet has six serrations on the rim of the hollowpoint cavity (meplat), and six talons. The talons deploy when the bullet expands. They are described by Winchester as: "six uniform, radial jacket petals with perpendicular tips." Winchester voluntarily discontinued sales of Black Talon SXT to the general public in late 1993/early 1994 due to intense negative media and political pressure. Some political activists derisively referred to it as "Black Felon" ammo. Black Talon is packaged in boxes of 20 cartridges.

Ranger SXT: Ranger SXT is a less expensive version of the original Black Talon cartridge intended for the law enforcement market. It consists of a black Lubalox coated bullet seated in a brass case. The bullet has six serrations on its meplat, and six talons. Ranger SXT is packaged in boxes of 50 cartridges marked "Law Enforcement Ammunition."

Supreme SXT: Redesigned "civilian" version of the original Black Talon bullet. The cartridge consists of a copper-jacketed bullet seated in a nickel-plated case. The bullet has eight serrations on its meplat, and no talons. Supreme SXT is packaged in boxes of 20 cartridges.

According to Olin-Winchester public relations, the Supreme SXT bullet design has not been factory tested in standard ordnance gelatin because it was not designed to meet police ammunition performance specifications. As a result, there's no valid and verifiable performance data available from Winchester or the FBI.

We find Winchester's attitude troubling because they're marketing a personal defense bullet (a life safety device) in which they confessed to us that they've no idea how well (or poorly) it performs. Therefore, we advise you not to buy and use Supreme SXT until Winchester gets its act together and coughs up performance data for this cartridge.

Ranger Talon: The second generation version of the original Black Talon SXT bullet. The cartridge consists of a copper-jacketed bullet seated in a nickel-plated case. The bullet has six serrations on its meplat, and six talons. Ranger Talon is packaged in boxes of 50 cartridges marked "Law Enforcement Ammunition."
Click to expand...


brad cook
 
Dig Me-

Refer to my comment about the tests in, "Handguns", which did use ballistic gelatin. ("Handguns", Feb-Mar, 2003)

The table posted showed both clothed and unclothed results. This was Plus P SXT Personal Protection Ammunition. Penetration was almost identical to 158 grain lead SWC-HP, but expansion was better, ranging from .523" to .601". The test gun was a S&W Chief's Special with the usual two-inch bbl.

Lone Star
 
In our own informal testing, the 230/45 and 147/9 Supreme SXTs didn't expand very well through cloth/denim.

The 130 +P 38 Special and 165/180 .40 S&W were as good as the best of the rest. ;)
 
Brass Balls said:
I talked to a Winchester rep who said that since they had to drop the Black Talon they came out with SXT which stands for Same Xact Thing! :D

I like it in 230 grain .45. It has a nice rounded profile that feeds well in my 1911s. Ammolab shows some impressive photos of how well it expands also. I also use Remington Golden Sabre 230 as it also has the rounded profile, and also is at times easier to find and less expensive too. Another small benefit of the GS is that it comes in 25 round boxes which perfectly fill three 8 round magazines and one in the pipe.
Click to expand...
black talons were sxt back then i have a about 9 boxes of 9mm 4 boxes of 45acp ill post a pic
 
When I tested the 230 gr .45 in my 1911, none expanded after going through cloth. The Ranger T, on the other hand, works quite well in my 1911.
 
Alan Fud said:
Opinions, please, on the Winchester Supreme SXT ammo for self defense?
Click to expand...
I use PDX1 230gr JHPs. It is reliable and accurate ammo in my .45 S&W. I'm sure it's not tested like the 'law enforcement' stuff because it's too expensive to them to use in the first place.
 
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