Wisconsin CCW--no laws without permit

[Dfence]

It's November 1st and the CCW permit law has just gone into affect in Wisconsin. Of course, nobody has a permit today because this is just when people can start applying for the permit, assuming they already got their training.

What I'd like to know (but can't seem to register on www.wisconsinshooters.com to ask about) is what will change for people in Wisconsin who do NOT have a permit. Here's what I've heard so far, but the law was fiddled around with all of October:

WITHOUT a permit, we can now....

1. Own a stun gun or taser, but not carry it.

2. Carry a loaded gun in a car, but supposedly not concealed there, however they'd define that.

3. Carry a concealed gun on your own property outside your home. (I didn't know that was illegal before).

Does anyone here know what other changes were made for people who don't have a CCW permit? Also, feel free to correct my understandings of the 3 points above if I'm wrong about any of them.

 

[Trip20]

With regard to #2, there is case law supporting that the car body may conceal the firearm thus putting one in violation of the law. It must be discernible with ordinary observance from a person outside the vehicle in the immediate vicinity (click).

It is State v. Walls, Court of Appeals 1994, 526 N.W.2d 756at 72 clarified crime of concealed carry for jury instruction: [3,4]

...we conclude that a person is guilty of carrying a concealed weapon in an automobile where: (1) the weapon is located inside a vehicle and is within the defendant's reach; (2) the defendant is aware of the presence of the weapon; and (3) the weapon is concealed, or hidden from ordinary view—meaning it is indiscernible from the ordinary observation of a person located outside and within the immediate vicinity of the vehicle.

 

[Dfence]

It's funny that Article 1, Section 25 says, "The people have the right to keep and bear arms for security, defense, hunting, recreation or any other lawful purpose." And then it goes on to say that you can't have it in your car. What good is it if you can't have it in your mode of transporation since you have to have it there in order to have it anywhere else?

It's also strange how "concealed" is defined around here. If you open carry and yet any part of your clothing even partially obscures someones view of your gun, then it's legally considered to be concealed. So does that mean if someone carries CCW, and the gun is showing, although only partially covered, then they are carrying according to what their permit allows, or would that person be arrested for displaying their weapon?

I'm having doubts about getting a permit. They continue to change the law about it, especially at the local level. No guns allowed in an government owned buildings, including the library! Since the library is pretty much a homeless shelter during the day and alot of shady characters loiter around there, I could see it being a place where attacks could easily happen.

The University won't allow guns either, nor many businesses. Is that what we have to pay an unknown amount of money on training (minimum of 4 hours now) and another $50 to the government for???

 

[Trip20]

I understand your frustrations.

With the State v Walls interpretation, I've read many comments similar to yours on other boards regarding what could be considered concealed. A recent comment I remember is (paraphrasing), "...if I sit strong side towards a wall in a booth at a restaurant isn't it considered concealed using the same logic?"

A response that made sense to me in that thread is that to the letter of the law, yes that and many similar scenarios could be considered as concealing a weapon. But the fact that there is no case law to support that premise, you're OK. With car carry, the opposite is true -- we have case law implying that a holstered loaded firearm on your hip is considered concealed.

Of course, it's entirely up to you whether or not you get your permit. The rules in place at the moment are "emergency rules" and are to be evaluated at another time (thank God). Regardless, if you're serious about carrying and want to alleviate a multitude of hassles, you're much better off paying for your permission slip.

 

[Dfence]

If the rules in place now are only emergency rulese, then how do we know what the real rules are? This is one reason I'd never bother with open carry. The cops can then interpret the rules any way they like at the moment based on someone seeing me with a gun and reacting to it in their own way.

Heck, carrying concealed illegally without a permit is so much safer since nobody knows you have it in the first place. Carrying openly and legally is so much more risky!

 

[jak67429]

Here is a link to the FAQ at the DOJ's website. Answers most of your questions.
http://www.doj.state.wi.us/dles/cib/ConcealedCarry/ccw-faq-20111020.pdf

 

[Dfence]

jak67429: I think you're right! Thank you! I believe it won't only answer my questions, but tell me pretty much anything I might ask about in the future too!

I saved the PDF file to my flash drive and will be doing some quality reading later tonight.