With the re-surging popularity of the 10mm...

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IdahoLT1

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and the news of Colt re-introducing the Delta Elite, will Smith and Wesson bring back the 1000 series pistols? I heard/read that they are THE gold standard of a 10mm pistol. They have the highest reputation of reliability and functioning. I have wanted one bad and the prices arent unreasonable for a discontinued firearm, but i would be afraid that it would become a safe queen. Any opinions or recent news articles?
 
S&W currently catalogs two (2) metal-framed centerfire TDA semi-autos: the 908 and the 910. Both of which used to be part of their "value series" line. There are no "standard" 3rd gen pistols still listed. There's almost certainly still some NOS, and if CDNN hasn't bought up what's left at the distributor level they probably will soon. For all intents and purposes, they're gone. S&W will probably finish off the 908/910s in the next couple years (possibly when they run out of what they currently have built; I can't imagine these things are flying off the shelves, especially competing against the heavily-discounted M&Ps).

They might do a 10mm 1911 or M&P, though.
 
I see 10mm as a resurging fad. It has come and gone a few times its one of those mid popularity rounds that wont thrive and it wont die its malingering along in life. Might make a great come back if some one would build a gun for it that wont develope a reputation for breaking.
 
I can see S&W "maybe" making a special run of them if they had a large enough order, but not as a cataloged item. FWIW, I'd buy a 1066 or 1046 TSW. :)
 
From what I read from this year's Shot Show, Smith is coming out with another 610 revolver. The one that I have (got it while they were current production) is AMAZING! Enough gun to handle the 10mm and quite accurate.

Why the resurgence of the 10mm?:
1) a lot of people want something "new", even if it is only new to them
2) some people have decided that the .45 is not quite enough and the 10mm is quite a bit more than the .45
3) there is always someone that wants the "biggest, meanest" what-ever, but can't handle the .454 Casul.

Oh well. :D
 
Why the resurgence of the 10mm?:
1) a lot of people want something "new", even if it is only new to them
2) some people have decided that the .45 is not quite enough and the 10mm is quite a bit more than the .45
3) there is always someone that wants the "biggest, meanest" what-ever, but can't handle the .454 Casul.

10mm is only 10mm, or .40 caliber and allows for high capacity in small frames.

It is only slightly more to control than the popular .40S&W while having significantly more energy and flatter trajectory.
It allows a much larger variation in bullet weights and velocity. Any loading that would work in .40S&W can be used, and many much more powerful can be used.

.357 Magnum was the gold standard for a long time, the 10mm is basicly the .357 in an auto. (The .357 sig is not.)


and 4) does not want to pay for a Desert Eagle.
The Desert Eagle is a massive hunk of metal. More suited to a day at the range or in a movie than in real life.
It does chamber powerful cartridges, but they take up a lot of space, and create a grip that is far too large. In a revolver they are fine, in an auto not so much.

The 10mm is however chambered even in some very portable packages suitable for concealed carry. There is the 10mm EAA Witness/Tanfoglio, and the Glock 29.
Arguably the Glock 29 is the better of them because it is 6.77 inches overall, yet has a 3.78 inch barrel, while the Tanfoglio/EAA Witness are close to 7.5 inches long yet only have a 3.6 and 3.66 inch barrel. That means it gets more energy out of the cartridge in a smaller platform. It also has higher capacity.
The vertical length of the G29 is also only about 4", much less than the others (though many add an extension, which itself can add +1 or +2 rounds.)
There is also a number of other compact firearms that can be converted to 10mm Auto which can make excellent defensive or hunting firearms (listing is pointless as they are too numerous).


If you consider full service size firearms there is many in 10mm too numerous to list, with both the potent cartridge and high capacty.
Any well built robust .45ACP chambered firearm can be converted. A robust steel .45 that uses doublestack magazines can be converted, and will hold quite a few of the more potent 10mm rounds which require less space. (Be careful with some of those built to just barely handle the .45ACP as they will not hold up as well. Extra slim models in most materials or most .45ACP polymers for example are not a great starting point (though the Glocks in .45ACP were actualy built originaly for the 10mm.)

A change in extractors, barrels, and springs and you can make any wonderful well built .45ACP firearm a reliable 10mm Auto with even higher capacity. The double stack models really gain a lot of capacity over the .45ACP.

The 10mm is a realistic auto cartridge for defensive firearms that will actualy be carried. Most calibers the Desert Eagle is chambered in are not. They are good calibers in the revolvers they were designed for, where cartridge length has no impact on the grip size.
Part of a cartridge being suitable is the platform making it to the fight, or to the hunt etc. The Desert Eagle is not going to make it there in most cases, and if it is a situation in the home you are better off with a more potent long arm.

Time between follow up shots must also be considered. The 10mm is a nice compromise between individual round capability and follow up shots.
.357 Magnum in an autoloader.
 
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... will Smith and Wesson bring back the 1000 series pistols?

I've repeatedly asked different folks at S&W if the 10mm will ever again be chambered in a variation of their 10XX metal-framed pistols as a normal production item. I'd even hoped for a 10mm version of the licensed SW99 platform.

The answer?

Not until such time as market trends indicate sufficient interest to justify diverting production resources to it.

How will that be determined?

The answer I've always heard was that it would be predicated upon the amount of factory commercial ammunition sales generated and reported among the major ammunition manufacturers. (Meaning that the 10mm cartridge is kind of considered to be a specialty cartridge favored by folks who reload, or commercially buy ammunition in small amounts from the smaller specialty ammunition makers.)

Pretty much the same thing I've been told by people at Ruger whenever I've asked this question, hoping to hear the P90 would someday be released in 10mm. Not holding my breath.

Considering the costs involved in the production of metal-framed pistols, versus polymer-framed pistols, for S&W - (an outside vendor makes the M&P frames for them, as with the Sigma and how Walther made the frames for the licensed SW99/990L series) - it would likely require that any 10mm metal-framed pistols would have to sell for more than the average consumer would ever be willing to pay ... and it's not like the cartridge is going to become a LE item, after all.

About the only way I could envision a 'run' of metal-framed 10mm pistols being produced would be if one of the large retailer outlets were to place an order for 20,000 - 25,000 units, or the Performance Center were to make a limited run (I won't hold my breath).

Probably be more likely to hope for the M&P being chambered in 10mm at some point ... presuming someday the commercial sales of factory ammunition indicated it would be profitable to do the R&D necessary to make a 10mm version of the M&P 45 (whatever that might involve).

Look how infrequently S&W produces revolvers chambered in 10mm for their handgun hunting customer base.
 
CZF said:

You SOB! That is an awesome price, almost worth the drive. Why did you have to help me out and post that up? Seriously though, thanks. I might see if he wants to do a partial trade. But, werent the 1006's DA/SA? Any info on the six configurations they had? I dont want a DAO S&W. I like the DA/SA or SAO models.

Oh and if anybody tries to buy that from under me, I'll kill ya.
 
I've had a Glock 20, and it was a great pistol, but I'd rather have a 10mm in a steel pistol to soak up that recoil. Given EAA Witness quality and customer service issues, I'd really really like to see CZ make at 10mm SP-01.
 
will Smith and Wesson bring back the 1000 series pistols?

Can't claim to be an expert on the firearms business, but it seems unlikely to me. I think the big companies like S&W make a lot of decisions based on what will appeal to big government contracts, and most of the .gov agencies seem to be going the way of plastic pistols in 9mm and .40 cal. Those, along with 1911's, account for the vast majority of civilian sales, too.

Retooling for the 10XX series is probably not analgous to what Colt would face getting back into the Delta Elites because Colt is already making 1911s and there's not much difference chambering it in 10mm vs .45 ACP from the manufacturing standpoint.

It looks to me like most of the "new" pistols marketed primarily for the civilian market are either re-works of existing models they are already making, or dolled-up versions of pistols intended to compete for .gov contracts. The 10XX series doesn't really fit either of those descriptions.

It seems unlikely we will see a major .gov contract going to 10mm. All the reasons they went away from 10mm are still there. The only thing that's really changed is improved bullet designs, which favor .40 SW or 9mm (generally regarded as more shootable especially for female or non-gun-nut officers, plus having a smaller grip and/or more capacity). Personally, I love 10mm as a fun range caliber. It might be a good self defense choice for some individuals, but not a likely choice for a large agency. Lots of people like it for hunting animals generally bigger and meaner than people, like wild pigs, but it would take an awful lot of handgun pig hunters to make this a paying proposition for S&W.
 
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Hey CZF, i just wanted to thank you for pointing that ad out to me. I got a killer deal on that pistol. Its only seen ~300rds and came with 6 mags, night sights and some Hogue grips.
 
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