Witness Intimidation

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The most outstanding fact to me is that if the perpetrators actually had any resources to make good on such threats, they would have communicated in some other manner, and come in some other form than a letter from inside the county lockup. :rolleyes:

If you can't drum up at least one co-conspirator to threaten a witness in person, much less at least tape a note to their front door, how are you going to recruit someone to "take care of them"? :scrutiny:
 
Originally posted by AJ Dual
The most outstanding fact to me is that if the perpetrators actually had any resources to make good on such threats, they would have communicated in some other manner, and come in some other form than a letter from inside the county lockup.

If you can't drum up at least one co-conspirator to threaten a witness in person, much less at least tape a note to their front door, how are you going to recruit someone to "take care of them"?
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Maybe the letter is from someone outside of the jail, thus answering the questions of "how did the letter get sent from jail if the address was not on the approved family mailing list?"
 
use the threat to your advantage. now, that the stupid criminals have made a threat, they will be the first suspects if something happens. he has friends outside jail. and prisoners can make calls to the outside, so it's not rocket science to have people scope you out. it's a personal decision. but if you do nothing that won't necessarily stop them from doing something anyway. if you lock them up, they will have a harder time reaching you.
 
I remember an article by Walt Rauch about this one time. He said he was told by his boss to do what needed to be done, and then Rauch wrote something like, "I don't really remember what happened, but the problem was taken care of."
 
Honestly, the kid is 17 years - can't carry a gun legally to defend himself, and he should be able to enjoy his youth without fear. Frankly, if not planning an immediate move, then I'd clam up and not testify. Actually *I* would because I'm hardheaded, but I cannot blame him if he doesn't. As has been mentioned, if this scumbag is a gang leader, he can easily order violence from the inside.
 
Put a decent bit of money in the guy's commissary account, let him discover it and start using it to get stuff, keep putting the money in his account so he starts getting all "I got dis money" and all.. keep putting it in... $100 a month is an easy amount to come by.

THEN make it known that the guy gets the money because he's busy snitching out inside.

A good way is to have a nice, clean, well dressed fellow visit him in general visiting hours, and make sure to let other cons see him shaking hands and thanking him for the co-operation on infiltrating whatever prison gang he would be likely to run in.

Odds are he's shanked in the rec yard in 2 weeks. Somebody will cut his face in the corridor or the commissary just for fun.
 
To everyone who says "kill whoever's trying to kill you" I point your attention to the movie Death Sentence released last year with Kevin Bacon and to Superman Vs. Doomsday.

In the end it's nearly impossible to stop the badguys from beating the goodguys if they want to. Neither you nor the police can be everywhere all the time (evidenced in Death Sentence) and even if you can the badguys have the added advantage of not having/needing to care about collateral damage (see Superman Vs. Doomsday).

If the man threatening him is serious, then the kid is in for a world of hurt and it comes down to what principles you hold most dear: truth and justice for all or bowing out with the expectation/hope that you'll be left alone.

I don't envy that kid his position one bit...
 
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To everyone who says "kill whoever's trying to kill you" I point your attention to the movie Death Sentence released last year with Kevin Bacon and to Superman Vs. Doomsday.
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Did you ever think that those works of fiction turned out the way they did because the screenwriter wrote the story that way? Let's refrain from comparing what we see in the cinema with real life, ok?

Jeff
 
To everyone who says "kill whoever's trying to kill you" I point your attention to the movie Death Sentence released last year with Kevin Bacon and to Superman Vs. Doomsday.
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:rolleyes:

The best answer I have for this has already been said by a far greater man than me, Col. Jeff Cooper:

“One bleeding-heart type asked me in a recent interview if I did not agree that ‘violence begets violence.’ I told him that it is my earnest endeavor to see that it does. I would like very much to ensure—and in some cases I have—that any man who offers violence to his fellow citizen begets a whole lot more in return than he can enjoy.”
 
I wonder what the US Post Office's position is on sending threatening mail?

The US Postal Inspector's might be interested in that mail since it has an idication of violent crime and it went through their system.

Nothing like throwing a Federal prosecution into the mix;)
 
To everyone who says "kill whoever's trying to kill you" I point your attention to the movie Death Sentence released last year with Kevin Bacon and to Superman Vs. Doomsday.
Click to expand...

So what are we supposed to do?

Run in circles crying and screaming, "The red coats are coming... The red coats are coming..." all the while hoping someone with a real backbone will come and save us???
 
To everyone who says "kill whoever's trying to kill you" I point your attention to the movie Death Sentence released last year with Kevin Bacon and to Superman Vs. Doomsday.

In the end it's nearly impossible to stop the badguys from beating the goodguys if they want to. Neither you nor the police can be everywhere all the time (evidenced in Death Sentence) and even if you can the badguys have the added advantage of not having/needing to care about collateral damage (see Superman Vs. Doomsday).

If the man threatening him is serious, then the kid is in for a world of hurt and it comes down to what principles you hold most dear: truth and justice for all or bowing out with the expectation/hope that you'll be left alone.

I don't envy that kid his position one bit...
Click to expand...

If you are going to base real life decisions on comic books and movies, why not ask the question "what would The Punisher do?":neener:
 
a) The movie Death Sentence was so bad it was funny...sometimes...but never so bad it was good.

b) I agree with Jeff White on both counts.

c) This kind of thing happens all the time, and IMO the family is not much safer "clamming up." They are probably safer testifying and getting some paperwork and would definitely be better off learning good avoidance/defense techniques.
 
I would testify and be prepared to defend. But, some folks just can't think of themselves as anything but victimes. It takes an offensive mindset, and many people don't have it.
 
My own example of intimidation comes from the other side. And I assure you I played it for laughs. It still tickles me some forty years later.

My Dad and I had an agreement. As long as I worked to stay in college, I could live in my old room, with meals. In turn, I worked on the loading dock at Master Lock. As for my personal life, my Harley was parked next to his car at our garage at home, and I made no secret of my club affiliation.

One weekend when I was about nineteen, my club pulled into one of those little broken down county fairs, just a place with loud music and cold beers. We hadn't even gotten all of the bikes parked when this nut comes running up to me, screaming.

He kept repeating, "Does your dad know you do this?" As I looked up, I realized that he was one of the 2,200 employees from Master Lock, and I remembered him vaguely. I brushed him off and went to go party, forgetting the incident.

Monday morning, my Dad and I walked into the plant, and there was this same nut by the door, still all wound up. He blocked our path (and my Dad was the executive Vice-President at that time) and went ballistic about the type of hoodlums I rode with on my free time.

I decided to yank him.

I told him, "Hey, I'm just a member, I don't hold an office. Obviously, you're concerned about customer service and our club image--things that are handled by The Club Enforcer's office. If you'll give me your name and address, I'll guarantee the proper people come to see you..."

The guy's color drained on the spot. We walked right by him, and I couldn't help but smirk.

My Father has been gone now about five years. We seldom agreed on anything, from the jobs I had, to the courses I took, the way I wore my hair or the whole "bike thing." He even wrote me a long heartfelt letter when I was about thirty-three trying to reconnect over the damage these fights caused us as father and son.

But on that day, he turned to me ever so slightly. He was the vice-president, and he had conduct to maintain. Softly he said with a wink, "You just couldn't leave it alone, could you..."

I do think about it as the one time my Dad and I had a bit of fun together. It was the day we used humor to make some idiot piss himself.
 
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Not sure what i'd do in this case, living here in California we have some of the most violent gang members out here. With that said, i'd probably testify and move. Then again i dont know. I have a large family and some of these gangsters can easily get their hands on a lot of info. A few years back and this was all over the media in California. More than 2 dozen gang members from Asian Boyz were rounded up for crimes commited in their areas. All of them, murder. 3 made it on Americas Most Wanted, they moved back to Philippines but the govt wont do anything about it. The police got one of the members to "talk" and his fellow members found out about it. They threatened to get his family if he talks. This is in Los Angeles and his family lived in San Francisco. To send the message clear, they sent a crew to his dads house and waited for him, as soon as he got home, they shot and killed him in the middle of the street. They even had the balls to put a hit on the DA working on the case, they caught the perps before the plan was executed. They knew everything as far as where they exit and enter, where they parked etc.
 
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Calling the police, DA, post office or what ever will do nothing to curb the outside threat.

Your thinking like law abiding people. Something career crimminals have no concern with. If he is a 3 strike felon and is facing life, what does one have to lose by killing the witness?

First if you could depend on law enforcement and the legal system to do the right thing, testifying would be a no brainer.

But the fact of the matter is people are killed everyday by thugs affliated with jailed perps awaiting trial.

Kill them all before they kill you is a great movie thought, but when you have family members in harms way, your Charles Bronson attitude will do nothing to protect them.

Every situation is different and the affected family would have to sit down and discuss what could be done to protect themselves.

Assurances of protection from the law means nothing, one would have to come up with a plan that depends on themselves only. Which if you live in a city that does not allow one to own a gun for protection, or carry a gun your options are little .

Moving is one idea after testifying, but crimminals know how to drive also. Its not an easy decision to make or take lightly or garner courage from Rambo or Death Wish.
 
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