Wolff Recoil Springs

[Confederate]

These springs all come with firing pin springs, which are a bit of a pain to change. Question, should I replace the firing pin springs or just save them as spares?

I have factory springs in my 2nd and 3rd generation S&W stainless 9mm pistols and bought some stronger springs because I have some +P ammo. I know I'm using stainless steel guns and they tend to be very strong, but many autos tend to have springs that are a bit light.

Do most people here use factory recoil springs or do they use third party springs?

 

[Brian425]

I use wolff springs for anything and everything

Sent from my SM-G925V using Tapatalk

 

[Confederate]

I think they're great, but I don't know how they're springs compare with the factory springs. One thing I hate is that they make the springs longer to get the extra power. I just installed a 16 lb spring and it was three inches longer than the factory spring. It was a bear to install and I don't trust that small cut out detente on the barrel. Sixteen pounds is a lot of force to put on that detente and I feared that it would shoot out any moment, go through the wall and into an eccentric solar orbit! Even as I slipped the slide onto the frame, I was terrified it was going to blow. What about an 18lb spring? Do they just keep adding length to the springs? Why can't Wolff just use stronger, shorter springs?

I'm just starting to lose my nerve.

 

[C0untZer0]

Like Mec-Gar magazines, W. C. Wolff Company is an example of a company that specializes in doing one thing and doing it better than anyone else, to the extent that gun manufacturers use them as their supplier instead of manufacturing the products themselves.

Wolff springs are fantastic.

 

[Walt Sherrill]

I think they're great, but I don't know how they're springs compare with the factory springs. One thing I hate is that they make the springs longer to get the extra power. I just installed a 16 lb spring and it was three inches longer than the factory spring.

That isn't always what happens. Some stronger springs just have more coils, others are made with a different gauge metal, but the compressed or uncompressed length isn't always greater.

Any NEW coil spring will be noticeably longer than the spring in the gun, if the gun has been used at all. That's because coil springs will take a SET (reduce their length) with the first days of use. The springs are designed that way, it's typical, and not an issue. With use they'll relax (and compress) a bit, and the length will shorten.

If a recoil spring is very difficult to install, it may be they sent or you ordered the wrong spring. A heavier spring isn't always longer. Generally they're made to fit and function in the same space. But as long as the gun can be manually cycled, chances are it's not too long. Magazine springs, on the other hand, are frequently difficult to install when new.

When getting replacement springs, the Wolff site will tell you what the "factory" weight is, and you can order that weight. Or something lighter or heavier. When I was shooting 3rd Gen S&Ws, I often got slightly lighter hammer springs, as they made for a better trigger.

Using a heavier spring because you're shooting hotter ammo isn't always required -- as long as the spent cases aren't sent too far, and the gun cycles properly. Keep in mind: the main function of a recoil spring isn't to PROTECT the gun, but to make the slide cycle properly... and chamber the next round. A too-heavy recoil spring can actually do more harm than it prevents with some gun designs -- as it will cause the slide to slam shut more forcefully than necessary as the next round is being chambered.

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[243winxb]

Factory springs for me. Changing the slide timing/velocity may cause problems.

 

[Homerboy]

There are a bunch of videos on YouTube showing how to get to the firing pin. I remove the pin on every new to me 3rd gen to give the firing pin channel a good cleaning. I've seen some real nasty stuff in that channel. It only takes a few minutes and you have the spring. Why not do it?

And I always replace with Wolff factory standard recoil and magazine springs. I have tried the +5 Power mag springs. Never had a problem with them.

 

[Walt Sherrill]

Factory springs for me. Changing the slide timing may cause problems.

Nothing wrong with using factory springs, but I don't think timing is all that delicate or easily disrupted. (I've used everything from 12 lb. to 22 lb. recoil springs in some guns, all firing the same ammo - and the main difference seems to be the ease with which you can manually rack the slide.)

About the only "timing" issue you can have is feeding the next round, and that's a relatively rare problem. If the recoil spring is heavy but the gun can still cycle, the stock magazine spring might NOT push the next round up quite as fast as it should. I've only HEARD of that problem, but never experienced it. Folks who go to heavier recoil springs (i.e., stronger) tend to use extra power mag springs, to prevent that problem. Wolff offers those springs, too.

 

[CZ9shooter]

I do a lot like the OP says in my semi autos.

Most of the time I run milder than average handloads. In which case the factory recoil springs have done just fine. On the occasions that I shoot +P type stuff I will often times swap in a stiffer spring from Wolf. Interestingly, standard ammo will usually function with these springs too. I don't make a habit of shooting like that though.

My feeling is that stiffer springs with hotter loads reduces some of the otherwise increased stress on certain parts. I am aware that other parts may see a slight rise the forces exerted on them. I am OK with that.

Also, it is interesting to experiment with the changes in felt recoil due to spring weight.

I don't mess with firing pin springs much. I just leave that alone unless I experiance problems.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Like Mec-Gar magazines, W. C. Wolff Company is an example of a company that specializes in doing one thing and doing it better than anyone else, to the extent that gun manufacturers use them as their supplier instead of manufacturing the products themselves.

Wolff springs are fantastic.

^^^ This right there!^^^

Funny thing here is, it's possible the factory springs ARE Wolff Springs. They supply many manufacturers with springs and did so for many years, even before they started selling Retail.

As for changing the timing on the slide causing problems, not likely unless you change out a 18lb spring for a 6lb spring and with a light enough load that might even work lol.

Wolff gun springs are in many of my guns including my M1 Garand.

 

[Confederate]

Thanks for all the replies. So if I understand it correctly, the new 16lb spring I just put into my S&W 3906 will compress after use, or "set" to an extent that I won't have to exert the same force getting the spring into the gun. If so, great, since I believe the extra few pounds will add to the functionality of this and my other Smiths.

Most people never replace their recoil springs, but how important is it with fairly normal use? A good revolver can go hundreds of thousands of rounds with no parts replacements, but some people put in new recoil springs in their autos every 5,000 rounds. And why does Wolff add the firing pin springs, anyway? Are these springs that require frequent replacement, or are they better than the factory springs?

 

[nettlle]

I have used the same firing pin spring for 16K rounds without any problems. I replaced it due to guilt. I have put 4K on the same recoil spring without any problems. I replace recoil springs every 2,500-3,000 rounds on a steel framed gun. About every 1,500 on an aluminum framed gun.

 

[Walt Sherrill]

So if I understand it correctly, the new 16lb spring I just put into my S&W 3906 will compress after use, or "set" to an extent that I won't have to exert the same force getting the spring into the gun. If so, great, since I believe the extra few pounds will add to the functionality of this and my other Smiths.

Whether you will have to exert the same force after the spring takes a set is hard to predict, but there is no question that if you use the gun for a few days at the range, its compressed and uncompressed lengths will be noticeably less than when you first received it.

The "SET" changes its length (which may be what made it an issue for you); it may also reduce somewhat the force required to compress it, but what's there after it takes the set should be the specified strength (weight) that the spring was designed to deliver. It might be less difficult to rack the slide... Some recoil springs just make it hard, and higher weight springs are often quite difficult to manually manipulate. You may have just paid the price of using a stiffer spring.

And why does Wolff add the firing pin springs, anyway? Are these springs that require frequent replacement, or are they better than the factory springs?

I've never heard, but suspect it's because it was a practice that began before nearly all guns came equipped with firing pin blocks. A heavier recoil spring could a cause slam fire in a gun without a firing pin block (at least in theory) if the firing pin spring wasn't also increased to compensate for the extra force of the heavier recoil spring. Firing pin blocks reduce the risk of "slam fires" to 0% if everything is working right.

For guns with firing pin blocks, I don't use the firing pin spring unless I have reason to think the spring itself is defective.

 

[9mmepiphany]

Most people never replace their recoil springs, but how important is it with fairly normal use?
...but some people put in new recoil springs in their autos every 5,000 rounds

A fairly common replacement recommendation, between manufacturers is 3-5k rounds

The importance of the recoil spring is that it returns the slide into battery and along the way will strip a round from the magazine lips, slide it's rim under the extractor, align it with the chamber and seat it.

So the question should be, "How important is it to you that your pistol be able to do that reliably?"

A good revolver can go hundreds of thousands of rounds with no parts replacements

The springs in a revolver don't need to power anything as heavy as a slide not does it have to feed cartridges from a magazine.

The fastest wearing spring in a S&W revolver is the Rebound spring...you'll notice it when the trigger doesn't reset as quickly

Are these springs that require frequent replacement, or are they better than the factory springs?

That has been a long debate of their relative quality.

I think the exception is the comparison to the recoil spring on the SIG Classic P-series...the factory springs have much better operating qualities

 

[nettlle]

I have used Wolff springs and they make a high quality product but I honestly can't tell any difference in a Wolff spring or a $3.00 Colt spring.

 

[RecoilRob]

Agreeing with Walt Sherrill that the firing pin springs are included with heavier than stock recoil springs because of their tendency to increase the returning slide velocity....which without a positive firing pin block can and will increase the momentum of the pin. If your stock FP spring is such that it lightly dimples each round as it's being chambered.....going to the heavier recoil spring is very likely to increase this dimple. Will it be enough to cause doubling? Very doubtful, but it's nice of Wolff to include the FP spring just in case.

 

[Walt Sherrill]

If your stock FP spring is such that it lightly dimples each round as it's being chambered.....going to the heavier recoil spring is very likely to increase this dimple.

Maybe I misunderstand your point... if so, my apologies.

With guns so equipped, the firing pin spring is there to impede the inertial movement of the firing pin in certain situations (such as drops or blows to the gun from the rear). A firing pin block typically stops that type of movement -- so the firing pin spring has a secondary function as a safety feature, but ONLY when the gun is dropped or the hammer is struck when the trigger isn't pulled.

After the hammer strikes the firing pin, the firing pin spring repositions/returns the firing pin to the rear, so it's stays on the other side of the breech face and creates a gap that must be bridged when the gun is to be fired. The recoil spring itself, heavier or lighter, which will be as relaxed as it can be when the slide is closed, can have little or no effect on how hard the hammer strikes the primer (or any other time, for that matter.)

A heavier HAMMER SPRING would increase the dimple. A heavier firing pin spring, which is what Wolff includes when you get a heavier recoil spring, would likely slightly impede the force of the hammer spring when the hammer drops -- as the hammer spring must overpower a HEAVIER firing pin spring (which is keeping the firing pin away from the breech face) when it is driven forward.

You MIGHT NOT see a difference in primer strikes if you don't install the upgraded firing pin spring -- BUT, if you do, the primer hit might be a slight bit LESS deep. That said, I've never noticed a difference, with old spring retained or when a new firing pin spring installed: the guns were fully functional either way.

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[IWAC]

Replaced the factory springs in my revolver with Wolff...never a problem, better trigger pull.

 

[drband]

FP spring (even extra power) will not impede the hammer spring dimpling the primer. It's there to return the FP to position and to act as a "drop safety" on some guns.

 

[GBExpat]

I have found Wolff springs to be "mildly" addictive.

I have a translucent plastic shoebox full of assorted Wolff springs packets.

 

[Confederate]

Good information here, thanks.

I'm sure that many people who buy autos never even think about replacing recoil springs.

I have a friend who, when he was very young, found his father's WWII Colt auto tucked away in a trunk. Assuming it was unloaded, he pulled it from its holster, turned off the safety and pulled the trigger. It discharged immediately, scaring the living daylights out of both him and his younger brother. He was completely surprised by the gun discharging and believed, had it not jammed, that he would have killed his brother on the second shot, which fortunately didn't happen. He said the gun jammed so completely that neither he nor his brother could fix it. With a hole in the wall, he had to fess up, but it taught him and his brother a valuable lesson: always keep fresh springs in your gun if you want it to work reliably!

Well...maybe they learned something about gun safety, too, but it's a good thing it jammed. For people who shoot a lot, they replace them every few thousand rounds. But if it came down to it, how long would most recoil springs continue to function if shot a hundred times per month? Three thousand rounds is most likely an arbitrary "safe" number for changing springs, what if push came to shove?

Six thousand? Ten thousand?

One of my guns, a S&W 2nd gen .45 (457), has two recoil springs, one inside the other.



The S&W 457 has two recoil springs.

 

[9mmepiphany]

One of my guns, a S&W 2nd gen .45 (457), has two recoil springs, one inside the other.

They need to both be changed at the same time.

Having two springs doesn't mean it extends the period between changes. It has two springs to have the same pressure as a longer spring in a shorter channel

 

[Walt Sherrill]

...Well...maybe they learned something about gun safety, too, but it's a good thing it jammed. For people who shoot a lot, they replace them every few thousand rounds. But if it came down to it, how long would most recoil springs continue to function if shot a hundred times per month? Three thousand rounds is most likely an arbitrary "safe" number for changing springs, what if push came to shove?

This has been discussed at great length on this forum and The Firing Line, with experts and a metallurgist or two involved in the discussion.

WORKING a spring will cause wear. Leaving a spring compressed can (not WILL) cause wear. In either case, it depends how close to the spring, when compressed, is to that spring's design limit -- called it's elastic limit. If a spring never gets compressed to its elastic limit, it can live a very long life. If the spring is greatly compressed (and reaches or exceeds that design limit), as is the case with some hi-cap mags and small guns, the spring may not live as long. Leaving a hi-cap mag fully loaded can accelerate spring wear with some mag designs, but not all. (Wollf Springs recommends down-loading a round or two for long-term storage.) Mags from WWII 1911s have been left fully loaded for many decades and continue to function properly; those springs are never pushed close to their elastic limits.

Some of the new smaller gun designs push springs farther than ever they've ever been pushed, and there's no free lunch...for THOSE design, springs become renewable resources. Rohrbaugh recommended replacing the recoil spring for the R9, arguably the smallest truly functional 9mm pistol, every 250 rounds or so.

With some guns, like most full-size guns and guns that don't have hi-cap magazines, the recoil and magazines springs may outlive the gun and owner. With compact guns and sub-compacts, spring life may be greatly reduced (ala Rohrbaugh R9). Some full-size 9mm guns may never need a recoil spring replacement -- it really depends on the gun's design, how the springs are used, etc.

The owners manual or customer service at the gunmaker can give advice.

Because coil springs are, generally speaking, pretty inexpensive for most common handguns, most folks figure that's the peace of mind that comes from changing springs regularly is money well spent.

.

 

[Confederate]

Walt Sherrill > Some of the new smaller gun designs push springs farther than ever they've ever been pushed, and there's no free lunch....

Does this include the small pocket pistols like the Jennings J-22 and the tiny Beretta pocket pistols in .22LR and .25ACP?

 

[Walt Sherrill]

Does this include the small pocket pistols like the Jennings J-22 and the tiny Beretta pocket pistols in .22LR and .25ACP?

For the two small semi-autos you cited, probably not. They're small, but not disproportionately small (relative to the calibers used), and they don't hold as many rounds as full-size models made by the same manufacturer.

Why don't recoil springs in these very small guns last as long in the sub-compact guns in larger calibers? They're not compressing more often than fullsize guns. It's simple: more than compression cycles is at play. As noted above, the amount of compression is/can be a factor, too.

With these very small guns, 1) barrels aren't as long, 2) the shorter barrels and slides and frames offer less room for springs, 3) and the smaller springs must do the same work as the full-size models. To make that spring last as long as a spring in a full-size gun, you'd have to have springs that are so strong they're not practical in a hand gun (i.e., you'd have a hard time racking the slide or doing a clearance drill. If you make the slide heavier to offset the need for a stronger recoil spring (reducing slide velocity), you've lost the weight advantage of a smaller gun, and if you make the barrel a bit longer, the gun may no longer be a good pocket-carry weapon. These small guns require a number of compromises, and with some design, shorter spring life is the result of of a compromise.

For any small sub-compact .45, like the Rohrbaugh R9, or for other large caliber guns made in the larger center-fire calibers the recommended recoil spring service life for most of these smaller center-fired guns is 1/3 to 1/2 of the cycles of the full-size guns.

The springs in these smaller guns (in the larger calibers) are just worked harder (and pushed to or past their elastic limits) more often, and there's no free lunches in life or in gun design.

Many of the small .22, .25, and .32 semi-autos aren't really disproportionately smaller, but some of the larger caliber very-small guns are.

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