Woman Shoots Motorcyclist: "Reasonable" or "Unreasonable?"

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There are no minor accidents between a motorcycle and a cage. If you're tailgating me, you're threatening my life and there's a good chance that if the opportunity arises, I'm gonna let you know about it.

Now, if your preconceived notions about scooter tramps cause you to shoot me, I hope you go to jail for a long time...and you better hope you put me down with the first shot.

Nuff said.

Biker
 
First off, ibob, roadkinglarry, I'm a long time lurker on this site. You two are above this petty arguing.
OK, back to topic.
If she was really that afraid why didn't she take her foot off of the brake and bury it in the gas pedal???
I dread to think what a SUV would do to my motor.
A legal shoot and a rightous shoot are different things. Just because its legal (this wasn't) doesn't mean it was a good shoot.
 
jlangton said:
I wasn't there,so I'm not gonna make a decision as to what should have happened,nor do I know the events that led up to the shooting,but I'll tell you what would happen here.
If somebody approaches my vehicle after there's an on-road altercation,and will not stop when ordered to do so-further advance toward my vehicle or my person will result in me drawing and firing on them. I don't care if they're black,white,yellow,purple,etc,etc...or if they were riding a motorcycle or driving a Mercedes.
There have been far too many people shot point blank while inside their vehicle after some idiot gets pissed off on the road and walks up to the window to solve their "problem".
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The motorcyclist had no gun in this case. No way to shoot the woman.

If she shoots, the law says it's got to be "reasonable."
 
more I think about it, more I think she out of line, she could of just hit the gas and gotten the heck out of dodge then shot the man.

Pulling a gun means that you may have to shoot someone, and if you shoot someone, you better have a darn good reasion.
 
The motorcyclist had no gun in this case. No way to shoot the woman.

If she shoots, the law says it's got to be "reasonable."
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Apparently you didn't read my post and comprehend it.
But-to address your comment...
How does anybody know if somebody has a concealed firearm? How does a person know what one's intentions are after an on-road altercation? I'll guarantee you that the biker had no intentions of just walking up to chit-chat with this person-you WILL NOT convince me nor anybody that has a bit of reasoning and common sense. You simply DO NOT approach a vehicle after an on-road altercation. It WILL end up a bad situation for everybody involved.
more I think about it, more I think she out of line, she could of just hit the gas and gotten the heck out of dodge then shot the man.

Pulling a gun means that you may have to shoot someone, and if you shoot someone, you better have a darn good reasion.
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How fast is a car? How fast is a bullet? You have no way of knowing if the person approaching your vehicle is armed or not.
JL
 
ilbob said:
I have to tell you that if a motorcycle thug gets off his bike
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Why do you link the word 'motorcycle' to to 'thug'? The biker could have been a brain surgeon on the way to the hospital for his shift.

How would you like a tree hugger to refer to you as a 'Floyd R. Turbo' just because your blaze orange hat has "ear flaps"?
 
Out of the hundreds of facts necessary to make an informed decision, we are given but ONE of them - that the shoot-ee got of his cycle and approached her.

But it's a very good point - one's fear must not only be actual, it must ALSO be "reasonable", as determined by a jury.
 
jlangton...

So you'll shoot a man just because he walks up to your vehicle in what you perceive to be a threatening manner?

Biker
 
So you'll shoot a man just because he walks up to you vehicle in what you perceive to be a threatening manner?
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If that person is told to stop,and is doing so after an on-road altercation-yes. If there's no on-road altercation,then they will be watched closely,and if they do not stop when ordered to do so-yes.
JL
 
Actually, I can't think of a way, with the facts as presented, that this was a good shoot.

She's in a car, so she has at least one layer of defense left (the doors), and the ability to run him over as well as shoot him. There's nothing in the guys hands (sure he might have a weapon, but he hasen't drawn yet.. I agree with her decision to draw as I'd be concerned, but there's no reasonable fear for her life here. There needs to be a use of force continum for everyone. Draw the weapon, keep your doors locked, windows up and foot on the gas. Simpley having someone approach your car, even angrily, is not a deadly threat short of a hockey mask and blood-stained chainsaw.
 
I'm in the "don't shoot unarmed people" camp. I've gotten a lot of responses on this BB from people who can't believe what a dolt I am for thinking that.


Now, the shooter was a woman and the person she shot was a man, so there's disparity of force there. But she was inside a car. At best, she pulled a Bernie Goetz and didn't warn the guy off before pulling the trigger.


A pocket full of loose change
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I've tried to figure out how "loose change" will prevent people from riding your bumper. I assume this is a euphemism. What does this mean?
 
It looks like the shooter acted unreasonably by shooting when she apparently did not have to do so.

The biker acted unreasonably by approaching the vehicle of an allegedly aggressive driver.

It appears that either party, acting alone, could have avoided the outcome.

If an unnecessary escalation of the situation has resulted in needless expenses being borne by the taxpayer to administer justice and etc. then maybe the shooter and the biker should be held at least partly responsible for the additional financial burden placed upon taxpayers as the result of their actions.
 
I have to agree with the other motorcyclists posting here.
I ride daily, and it isn't like cage on cage action when you're harassed by a car, truck, SUV, or what have you. It's life threatening.

However, the statement that reads that she had 42 chances to turn off of that road while following him means that he had opportunity to turn off too.
I'm still in one piece because I don't have any illusions about being a tough guy on a bike. I yield to aggressive drivers nearly every time, or I leave them in the dust.
I certainly would never get off at an intersection and get in someone's grille about it.

But, if you're going to bother people in traffic, don't assume you're the best armed or craziest person in the encounter. That guy could have been armed to the teeth. She could have been a cold-blooded killer with heads in the fridge.

Whatever the reason, I think he was crazy for getting off and confronting her, when he could have just split over to the next lane, taken a right to get away from her, or waved her on by.

Good shoot, bad shoot, legal, moral, whatever. Bottom line is he got off his bike and took a slug when all he had to do was get out of the way.
 
1) It sounds unreasonable. She could have driven away.
2) At least in Virginia, in order to shoot in self defense, you must be free from guilt. Engaging in road rage, tailgating and antagonizing a driver into confronting causing the driver to attack you means that you are not free from guilt and cannot should in self defense.
 
1) It sounds unreasonable. She could have driven away.
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As I mentioned before, this may or may not have been an option; she was at an intersection.

It was unreasonable not to just pull out the gun and sit in the car just in case he got violent.


My course of action (If I were in the car, and unable to move it) would be:
1. Put gun in hand
2. Refuse to roll down window and hope person goes away
3. If 2 fails, call police and order person to leave
4. Escalate in proportion to any aggression
 
If that person is told to stop,and is doing so after an on-road altercation-yes. If there's no on-road altercation,then they will be watched closely,and if they do not stop when ordered to do so-yes.
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I can't have any respect for a man* who needs a gun to deal with an unarmed man.


PS If you pull a gun first and the other guy shoots you, you'd better be dead or a very fast talker when the cops show up.


*I'll give you points for being a woman
 
A lot depends on facts that are not in evidence.Two things are very clear.

1. The motorcycle rider initiated the contact. I can see why a woman in a car might well be intimidated by a guy in full leathers coming up on her (not that we know what he was wearing). She might well think he was attacking, and IMO if he was, its a righteous shoot.

2. The kids actions after the fact are way out of line.

It sounds to me like it could be a case where perhaps a lady driver got a biker pissed at her and he felt the need to vent close up. If that is the case, he made a very foolish choice.

I am not sure what the legal situation is in the state this happened in, but I have very little sympathy for people who feel the need to vent at other people over their driving skills. If you don't like the way they are driving, call the cops and let them know what you think. Road rage is mostly a two way street and both parties are usually to blame.
 
I can't have any respect for a man* who needs a gun to deal with an unarmed man.
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Once again, you do not know if a stranger is armed or not until after the fact. Your personal attacks are uncalled for.
 
I can't have any respect for a man* who needs a gun to deal with an unarmed man.
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lets see. a 300 pound (not that i know his size) gorilla in motorcycle leathers versus a 110 pound woman.

in any case, why should I have to duke it out with an aggressor in any case?

the whole thing was started by the motorcyclist getting off his bike and accosting the woman. he is largely responsible for what happened just because he chose to start something.
 
jlangton...

You should not be carrying.

Biker
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+1
bike vs cage is not something to take lightly. Full leathers, a do rag and sunglasses, whatever. I usually look like a stormtrooper when I ride, but your still much more heavily armored than I am. At that point it's a 300# man vs. an SUV...... I suggest you drive away. My wife has been instructed to do just that- drive away
 
Riding a motorcycle daily is a challange just to stay alive sometimes. People cut you off, crowd your lane, or just change lanes on top of you, follow too close, throw crap out of their windows, you name it..... I can't say what I would have done in his case, and I hope I'm never put in that position. I'm not choosing sides in this matter either, just offering my opinion
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I used a motorcycle for daily transportation for years. After 20 years I sold mine. People will tailgate you, which is very dangerous to the motorcycle driver. Not at all dangerous to the driver of a huge SUV. If you ever are on a motorcycle and you have someone tailgate you for an extended period of time, you might change your opinion about telling the tailgater to back off.
 
I drive this intersection every day. Trust me there are numerous places she could have turned off even once the guy was approaching her car. She was in the wrong. Plain and simple.
 
You're right but everytime some bigoted dolt calls someone a thug simply because they ride a motorcycle I'm gonna call 'em on it.
Not that I'm directly calling you a bigoted dolt but if the shoe fits...
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If you are calling me a bigoted dolt, thats OK. You have my permission. Sticks and stones and all that.
 
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