Working up 357 magnum. Need a little advice.

[Zaydok Allen]

Yesterday I ordered 1000 RMR brand plated HPs and am intending to load them using H110. I want a practice load that is stout, and going to mimic the recoil of many common defensive loads.

RMR has a note with these bullets that they have thicker plating than other plated bullets out there. They recommend not exceeding 1400 fps. That's good sense, since they would want to accommodate folks like me, and not have to limit them to 1250 fps like other plated bullet manufacturers.

In any case, I looked through my 6 different manuals and the only one that has plated bullet load data is my Lee manual. They however have no load data for H110. This makes sense though because of the common velocity restrictions I just mentioned. My Hodgdon periodical, Lyman 49th, Lee, and Hornady do all have loads for H110 with either JHPs or XTP.

So before anyone says it, I'm just going to say I know I need to start low and work up my load.

My real question is I see folks typically state that if they don't have plated bullet data, they just restrict their loads to mid range jacketed data. Makes sense to avoid excess velocity. But given the 1400 fps limitation, I assume since I'm loading HP plated, I can use the same starting loads and COL for jacketed HPs or XTP bullets, use my Labradar to check the velocities and watch for when I'm creeping too close to 1400fps, and check the barrel for signs of jacket failure.

I have also heard that H110 tends to like near max loads for good solid burns and good accuracy. I suspect I'll be pushing these bullets too fast if I do that, so I am prepared to switch to a different, or faster burning powder if it generates better accuracy. I have Longshot and AA#7 on hand. If I can generate an accurate load at 1350 fps I'll be happy.

I did note too that some of my manuals stated a 10" test barrel. I'll be shooting these from a 6" barrel S&W Competitor and a three inch S&W 686+. I think I'll skip H110 loads in my SP101, but I'm sure I'll have to try a few out.

Next time I'll likely buy FMJs, but I want to make sure I'm not missing some issue with loading plated HPs and using data for JHP and XTP bullets. I mean with a workup and mindfulness of max velocity, I should be fine, correct?

 

[George P]

Correct, you should be GTG

 

[Zaydok Allen]

I guess this sort of brings up a follow up question. Is there really any reason to ever consider one JHP to be any different than any other in regards to starting load data, so long as the base is the same? I mean I understand the load manual publishers are being specific, but for the most part, a JHP from Hornady and one from Speer, should be nearly synonymous with start loads, correct?

 

[Toprudder]

Different brands of bullets could have different hardness jackets, and this could affect the pressure.

As for plated in 357, I've gone away from using plated in revolvers. I've seen plating failures when I was not pushing the bullets hard. I can't speak for the RMR bullets, though. Right now, my preference is for Zero JSP bullets in either 357 mag or 44 mag.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

It's not the HP it's the composition of the bullet that changes the data.

What weight bullet are you using and what is your carry ammo? Chrono your carry load so you don't need to guess when trying to match velocities. I have found when trying to load replica ammo that the feel of the recoil is more important than the exact velocity. You want to find a powder that will produce a similar recoil impulse to create a proper replica load.

I have successfully created a handful of replica loads but it takes time.

 

[Zaydok Allen]

Different brands of bullets could have different hardness jackets, and this could affect the pressure.

As for plated in 357, I've gone away from using plated in revolvers. I've seen plating failures when I was not pushing the bullets hard. I can't speak for the RMR bullets, though. Right now, my preference is for Zero JSP bullets in either 357 mag or 44 mag.

Yeah, you mentioned Zeros to me before, and I expect I'll try them out in the future too. I'm still trying to figure out what I like.

I hear what you are saying about the jacket hardness, and I suppose thickness also, but my assertion is essentially correct? If I start at the bottom of the load data and work up, as anyone should whenever changing any component of a load, I should be pretty much ok? I know I need to watch substitute loads carefully for pressure signs, and excessive, or below expected speeds.

 

[Zaydok Allen]

It's not the HP it's the composition of the bullet that changes the data.

What weight bullet are you using and what is your carry ammo? Chrono your carry load so you don't need to guess when trying to match velocities. I have found when trying to load replica ammo that the feel of the recoil is more important than the exact velocity. You want to find a powder that will produce a similar recoil impulse to create a proper replica load.

I have successfully created a handful of replica loads but it takes time.

Yeah ok, that makes sense. I typically carry Speer 158 gr GDs. In my experience they are loaded fairly warmly, but nothing startling. Good point about clocking those loads and then trying to match them. H110 may be unnecessary

 

[Walkalong]

Zeros are a good choice for a quality affordable jacketed bullet that can handle anything H-110 and the .357 Mag can dish out. And then you don't have to worry about crimping or exceeding the limits of a plated bullet. Even tough plated bullets can have a hard time with some forcing cones.

 

[Zaydok Allen]

Zeros are a good choice for a quality affordable jacketed bullet that can handle anything H-110 and the .357 Mag can dish out. And then you don't have to worry about crimping or exceeding the limits of a plated bullet. Even tough plated bullets can have a hard time with some forcing cones.

So for future notes, no more plated bullets if I want to rev them up. Like I said, I have other powders on hand and wouldn't mind working up a mid to lower level load for my Ruger SP101. That gun doesn't get shot as much as it should.

Maybe I'll just do that and order some jacketed bullets for use with the H110. The powder isn't going bad anytime soon. I have a lot of 38 brass I could use with these bullets too.

 

[Mr_Flintstone]

One other note. When using different brands of bullets of the same type, check that the seating depth (distance from the base to cannelure usually) is the same, and not necessarily the OAL. Seating deeper or shallower could affect the pressure/velocity on your reloads. I have bought a few similar bullets that had the cannelure at different depths. This wasn't a big issue for me since I was using medium load data on .38 special, but if you're going to be close to max on .357, then you may want to check.

 

[Toprudder]

I hear what you are saying about the jacket hardness, and I suppose thickness also, but my assertion is essentially correct? If I start at the bottom of the load data and work up, as anyone should whenever changing any component of a load, I should be pretty much ok? I know I need to watch substitute loads carefully for pressure signs, and excessive, or below expected speeds.

Absolutely.

 

[Walkalong]

So for future notes, no more platted bullets if I want to rev them up

That's a good guideline, although it can be done to a degree with some plated. I used a taper crimp for it when I did it, but it wasn't full blown .357 Mag velocities. A Powerbond 125 Gr HP with a heavy taper crimp at 1300+ & an X-Treme 158 gr SWC with a heavy taper crimp at around 1175/1200.

Full blown H-110 velocities? jacketed or coated.

 

[Zaydok Allen]

One other note. When using different brands of bullets of the same type, check that the seating depth (distance from the base to cannelure usually) is the same, and not necessarily the OAL. Seating deeper or shallower could affect the pressure/velocity on your reloads. I have bought a few similar bullets that had the cannelure at different depths. This wasn't a big issue for me since I was using medium load data on .38 special, but if you're going to be close to max on .357, then you may want to check.

Good point! I really don't load anything to max accept 38 specials, but I shoot them from 357 revolvers. None the less, good advice since that depth could really build pressure fast.

 

[tightgroup tiger]

One thing you need to realize with plated bullets from anyone is they are copper plated which is a lot softer than the alloy in bullet jackets.
I can tell you from experience that shooting copper plated bullets at full throttle will copper foul your barrel even if the bullet will take it.
I've shot full magnum loads with copper plated bullets in 158 gr and after only a 100 of them, my barrel was copper fouled.
Don't have a chrono but was around 1350fps from load data.
Lesson learned. JHP or JSP don't do that.

 

[Fine Figure of a Man]

I'll be shooting these from a 6" barrel S&W Competitor and a three inch S&W 686+. I think I'll skip H110 loads in my SP101, but I'm sure I'll have to try a few out.

I don't think you will exceed 1400 fps with a 158 grain bullet in any of those guns.

 

[Zaydok Allen]

I don't think you will exceed 1400 fps with a 158 grain bullet in any of those guns.

Nope. Me neither.

 

[earplug]

Consider trying some coated bullets. People have been using commercial coated bullets at rifle velocities. Many 9MM shooters and myself are happy with them. I think they are easier to work with then plated bullets. There not as picky or fragile as to crimping. Some 357 powders are dependent on a healthy roll crimp to ensure a good powder burn.

 

[Bfh_auto]

Lyman 49th has cast data for a 160gr Linotype using 15.8-16.5 h110. 1343-1463fps. 40,300 CUP.
Someone else needs to double check that.
For the record, I have pushed plated bullets at 360 Dan Wesson velocities through a polished bore without issues.
I think the barrel had everything to do with the outcome.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Yeah ok, that makes sense. I typically carry Speer 158 gr GDs. In my experience they are loaded fairly warmly, but nothing startling. Good point about clocking those loads and then trying to match them. H110 may be unnecessary

I agree the Speer 158gr .357 Magnum ammo is on the warm side by today's standard. I like that round and you should be able to load a good replica with minimal effort.

 

[buck460XVR]

Some good advice here. That said, I would not be afraid to run those bullets with Hodgdon's start load of 15 gr of H110/W296. With the cannelure, you should be able to get a fairly firm crimp without damaging the bullet, and the use of magnum primers will assure positive ignition. Regardless of the velocity Hodgdon gives, I doubt if you will get anywhere close to 1400fps, I'm guessing closer to 1200.. I shoot many JHPs with that 15 gr load at the range, and it is a good accurate load. It is actually at the upper end of the load recipe for 158 jacketed in both Hornady and Speer manuals so I doubt if there will be an issue. As for accuracy, with plated, it isn't generally about the velocity, but the actual quality of the bullet itself.There's a reason plated are cheaper than other types of bullets and those reasons generally relate to less that optimal accuracy. But for general range use, better quality plated bullets give decent enough accuracy and allow one to shoot alot without breaking the bank. Most plated HPs perform terminally much like FMJs, with the exception of Speer's GoldDot/ DeepCurl line, of which you are familiar.

 

[Obturation]

I like alliant 2400 & 158 grain swc ( similar to the original keith load) for general use and recreation . For anything i may want a hollow point for i load h110 & 158 grain xtp at a slightly higher velocity with similar perceived recoil.
Thats really all i shoot in 357 mag, works well for how i use that gun . Ymmv. I would suggest working up a good load for your small revolver too .

I cant speak with confidence on plated bullets but im under the impression that plated should be treated like hardcast and left at that. But i have no experience loading them, i never saw a use.

 

[kcofohio]

Zeros are a good choice for a quality affordable jacketed bullet that can handle anything H-110 and the .357 Mag can dish out. And then you don't have to worry about crimping or exceeding the limits of a plated bullet. Even tough plated bullets can have a hard time with some forcing cones.

I agree. Zero, for the money and quality, is hard to beat. I keep watching for when Powder Valley gets them in stock again.

 

[Toprudder]

I will have to remember to check PV before I order more Zero bullets. I think the last time I ordered, the price from Roze, counting free shipping, was a little less than PV. That may have changed. But PV seems to be OOS on a lot of the Zero product.

 

[Zaydok Allen]

Wanted to drop a quick thanks in here. Please, share more thoughts if you have them!

Zeros are looking like a really good affordable option. Maybe I’ll order 1000 of them and just use the plated RMRs on 38 special.

 

[kcofohio]

Wanted to drop a quick thanks in here. Please, share more thoughts if you have them!

Zeros are looking like a really good affordable option. Maybe I’ll order 1000 of them and just use the plated RMRs on 38 special.

Some time ago I bought nearly 1k of 158 gr. Berry's from a member here. Before I got around to reloading any of them, I switched my revolver loads to 140 gr.

With a newly acquired 357 rifle, my hope is to work the 158 gr. plated with HP-38 or Titegroup, at 50 yds./M. and to have nearly the same zero as 158/180 gr. jacketed with 300MP or 2400 at 100 M. I really don't know if that is doable, but I plan on having fun trying.