Would Saiga 7.62 be Best Low Priced AK GUN?

[4Freedom]

I am looking to get an AK to add to my collection before they are banned. I cannot afford $1000+ for an Arsenal or any other high priced, beefed up AK. I have seen some good priced Saigas for around $600-$700 and I am thinking of getting one. I also see some conversion kits for around $150. Some say you can convert it yourself, but I am a newbie and would have to hire a gunsmith. I was told that doing conversions are very difficult and lot of people mess them up.

Anyway, I may not do a conversion at all, but will just use the Saiga mags, since in the end, I may not save any money doing conversion.

Some tell me Saigas are top of line AKs and even more accurate than Arsenals.

Anyway, for $650, do you think a Saiga 7.62 x39 or Saiga .308 16" would be a good first AK to own? I am fretting here, its a tough market, but I like to get me an AK To complement my lonely ARs

 

[nalioth]

Saigas are the absolute best bang for the buck.

Factory or converted.

 

[4Freedom]

Would you suggest that I go with the 7.62 x 39 or .308 16" for an overall SHTF, protection gun? I suppose the 7.62 x 39 ammo and mags are much cheaper right?

Also, do you suggest I buy the conversion kit? I see one on gun broker for $125.00 . Here is the description:

Package contains the USA parts required to convert your Saiga back to AK configuration. Includes new trigger group, pistol grip, and M4-style stock. NOTE: WEAPONS PICTURED ARE FOR DISPLAY PURPOSES ONLY, NOT INCLUDED WITH AUCTION. FOR WEAPONS, SEE OUR OTHER AUCTIONS. Use BUY IT NOW and get FREE SHIPPING! Shipping to lower 48, certified funds due 7 days of auction close. Auctions are discounted for cash or check, credit-card users add 3%.


How much would it cost a gun smith to do the conversion? Are Saiga mags really that expensive to buy compared to AK47 mags? I never would buy a polymer mag as I hear they are not good.

 

[nalioth]

I would suggest you buy the caliber you like.

As far as 'conversion kits', quite a few are designed to separate ignorant folks from their money.

The Saiga 12 forum has got more info on Saiga firearms than you'd ever think to ask about.

 

[4Freedom]

What advantage does 7.62 x 39 have over .308? I am told ammunition prices of 7.62 x 39 and .308 are almost same now. Also, I hear .308 is more powerful round. So would it be better to get if I desire a powerful and accurate type of round? Or, is the main disadvantage that you cannot convert the Saiga to AK configuration is you get the .308 ?

 

[Duke of Doubt]

Not a Saiga fan. They sacrifice all of the virtues of the AK design, simply to keep the action and caliber of the AK. Light weight, short length, folding stock, rugged furniture, plentiful and cheap magazines -- gone, with the Saiga. If you want a semi-automatic hunting rifle, get one in a hunting caliber. If you want something in 7.62x39, either pony up for an SAR-1 or similar AK, or settle for an SKS, preferably from Romania or Yugoslavia (or Russia, but they are more expensive for no gain in quality over the Romanians).

 

[jpwilly]

What advantage does 7.62 x 39 have over .308

308 is more powerful.

I am told ammunition prices of 7.62 x 39 and .308 are almost same now

No 7.62x39mm is about half of what the 308 Win & 7.62x51mm ammo runs

Or, is the main disadvantage that you cannot convert the Saiga to AK configuration is you get the .308?

You should not be doing a conversion until you get lots more info. The Siaga can be purchased in either caliber but you will not be able to change calibers by doing a "conversion" the conversion in question is taking a sporting rifle imported without evil features and making it into an AKM configuration with evil features and keeping the rifle 922r compliant in the process. It has nothing to do with changing calibers.

 

[leadcounsel]

Saigas are fine weapons, but $650 seems kinda high. I just got one with a skeleton stock, scope, mount, 2 mags and 100 rounds for under 5 bills.

The nuisance is that they don't readily accept AK mags unless you gunsmith them.

 

[nalioth]

They sacrifice all of the virtues of the AK design, simply to keep the action and caliber of the AK.

They also sacrifice all overblown pricing of "name" Kalashnikovs.

The money you aren't spending on a 'name' can be spent as you like it on the Saiga.

Also, 1 hour and some hand tools, and you've got your Kalashnikov back. It's not as if they've permanently neutered a Kalashnikov. You're also back in the price range for a quality Kalashnikov at that point.

 

[4Freedom]

Ok then, well now I don't think Saigas are the greatest idea anymore. Being a newbie, its hard for me to know which is good and which is trash. Well, I know a conversion doesn't change caliber, it allows it to accept AK mags and have original AK type parts, right? Many say though the advantage after conversion is that you can use the AK mags, which you cannot use with .308.


WEll, I have read and read forums on gun broker on the best first AK and I am more confused than ever. As for $600 being expensive, can you show me a better and cheaper place to find a Saiga 16" ? I cannot find anything. Do you really expect prices to go down?

I am hearing WASRs are garbage, most Bulgarians are garbage (except Arsenal). Really I am just not sure if there is any AKs left worth buying.

My budget is $750 tops.. Not sure what to do..

I think the Saiga at $600 is as good of a deal as a I can find. If I buy the .308 Saiga, would it be not worth converting to AK configuration? Would converting it to AK configuration make it mroe accurate and lighter weight? I just want a good powerful and durable gun, I don't plan on doing lot of plinking with it, since these guns may be extinct and I want it to last.


Also, can anyone tell me if this conversion kit contains all the necessary pieces required to ully convert Saiga into AK configuration? Does this kit also contain what is needed for the Saiga to accept AK mags?

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=119078893

 

[saigafreake]

U should be able to find an sgl10 saiga in that price range. They have most of the evil features and there already compliant to use usa made 30 round mags.

 

[jpwilly]

it allows it to accept AK mags and have original AK type parts, right?

Yes, if you install the bullet feed ramp/guide you can use the AK mags when also using enough US made "AK type parts" to make it 922r compliant and look the business.

AK mags, which you cannot use with .308

Right, AK mags for 7.62x39mm aren't designed for 7.62x51mm...but they do make hi cap mags for the 308 witch you can only legaly use after the conversion to a US manufactured 922r complient rifle.

 

[4Freedom]

I have found a Saiga 16" on gun broker that is $550 and accepts standard AK mags. However, it is used. He says it was kept in his friend's safe. Do you its worth buying or is buying used Saigas risky business on gun broker?

 

[yenchisks]

a saiga is a saiga is a saiga (geewezz)just by a AR-15 and be done with it .you'll have to wait but it's worth it, now go to (del-ton)... for $570 for a kit

 

[ByAnyMeans]

WOW, how prices have changed. One year ago I bought all the parts to assemble a converted Saiga with side mount and red-dot for under five hundred dollars, although i got a good deal on the rifle.


If you don't feel comfortable converting the Saiga yourself then purchase a pre-converted one from somewhere such as this one

http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/beta/storeproduct433.aspx


It's already converted and you get the benefit of surplus AK magazines. I believe you cannot use the Saiga high Cap magazines without at least changing four US compliance parts anyway. You need five if it's a pistol grip but four if it remains in original condition. Again, someone may correct this because I certainly can't be sure of anything the BATFE makes up.



**Edited to add that I have purchased many guns from Gunbroker without issue but I would advise caution. Many people have converted Saigas and without doing the work myself or having a solid business behind the product you cannot be certian of the work or 922r compliance so I would be very weary.

 

[4Freedom]

I doubt Atlantic Firearms still has these in stock. I left a message on their phone inquiring about Saigas and AKs and they never bothered to call me back; it has been several days. I assume they are sold out completely. Any other ideas? I am just growing weary of the whole AK deal.. Heck, I know ARs are good guns, maybe i will just buy myself another AR -15.. I'll forget the AR10/LR308's, they are too damn expensive.

 

[yenchisks]

Have you called J&G? polish tantal $489.but its 5.45x39

 

[4Freedom]

I have called them in the past. They usually show what they have on the website and it usually isn't much. All I saw was a few rifles, decent prices, but not great selection. THey really don't have anything I am looking for right now. Any other ideas, I am always eager to hear.

 

[yenchisks]

well i did see quit a collection on gunbroker in 7.62x39, a good friend of mine was firing this round at a 55 gal drum at 600 yrds, i was spotting for him,he hit the barrel 27 time's out of 50 shots..(with a high cross wind) if you go with the 308 id get a 20in barrel to maximize the round.

 

[paintballdude902]

god saigas are up to 600?

wow this is crazy like 2 years ago they were like 250 around here but i guess an ak was like 325

 

[yenchisks]

ya like its crazy lately,hope gets back to normal soon

 

[4Freedom]

On the point, will AKs ever go down? I am seeing some good deals on Rock Rivers, if I am gonna fork out $1000+ for a converted Saiga , I think I rather get a higher quality gun like Rock River. Seems that AKs are becoming more hype than quality. Perhaps if I stick local, USA made, I can get a good gun and accurate gun for that money.

WEll , I don't want to have 20in + barrel because I want a carbine style gun I can use to manuever with. I already have an LR308 bull barrel 24in for the long range stuff. I doubt that a Saiga .308 can compare; that is, if I become a good shooter in the future, LOL. Anyhow, I am looking for a high powered carbine or lighter weight/short barrel gun. Perhaps if I use hollow point style ammo wiht an AR, I can have all the power of AK gun with added accuracy.

Well, I like to have an AK in my famiy, but I think I am too late. What is point of forking out over $1000 for these type of guns?

 

[regal]

People forget to factor in the cost to add a muzzel brake to a Saiga, its not an easy kitchen table operation.

 

[Frank4711]

Several Saiga's on Gunbroker $450 and under, they are getting back in stock I think they will go down a little more. I have several, they function perfect, never a jam, they eat any ammo.

 

[4Freedom]

Ok, show me a $450.00 Saiga on gun broker and I may even add it to my collection.. I just bought an Rock River AR15, because I was becoming fed up with the AK scene.. I just didn't think I would land a deal. I have not seen a Saiga under $600.00. And if it is under that price, it is usualy just on the bid or has a reserve price not met. But if you can show me such a cheap Saiga, I be interested to know.