Would Saiga 7.62 be Best Low Priced AK GUN?

[Frank4711]

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=119538166 http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=119537617

 

[Rmac58]

I've got a 22" barrel Saiga in .308 for $550.00. Black Monte Carlo stock.

 

[4Freedom]

Ugh.. one of those Saigas is in a .223. I really dont want a commie .223 rifle. The whole point of a commie gun is to get the big caliber. Also , the second auction has over 3 days. The starting price is $440.00. Meaning the ending price will easily be over $500.00 , more likely $600.00. I have seen this same gun broker ad but didn't feel like gambling for 3 days waiting, while other Saigas in the $550.00-$650.00 range had buy it now options.

Anyhow, I bought an AR.. Its all over.. Still I would love to see a Saiga for $450.00. I may consider getting it and storing it for a while, when I can afford to convert it. Maybe if I go to a gun show and I see a used one that someone is selling for cheap. As far as the new ones, they all look around $600+ range now.

 

[MAKster]

Anyone trying to buy an AK or AR today has already missed the boat. At this point you are better off waiting a few months until the supply builds back up and prices drop. The post-election demand is unsustainable in the long run.

 

[4Freedom]

A few months with this ultra-left wing , gun hating government? Really, I think the fear factor alone with Obama and friends in power, will prevent any decrease in price or increase in supply. Well, I could be wrong. I just think the minute the word "Gun Ban" is brought to the surface, regardless if whether it happens right away or not, the fear factor will be like never before.

 

[outerlimit]

I can remember 3-4 years back when Saiga single stacks used to be like around $179 new in 7.62x39mm.

I wouldn't even consider one at the current asking prices I just seen on Gunbroker! Nutz!!!

 

[Kymasabe]

Do the conversion !!

Anyone with a pulse and opposable thumbs can do a Saiga conversion. You don't need a fancy milling machine or even a drill press. If you have a hand drill and some basic hand tools, you can have a Saiga converted in about 3 hours or less, and that includes time spent going back to the computer to check what the next step is in the conversion process.
Here are two GREAT links for the conversion:
http://www.cross-conn.com/Saiga_Conversion/
http://www.stu-offroad.com/firearms/saiga/saiga-1.htm
Here is a link to a YouTube tutorial: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XU96VbnSoTc
Here is a list of conversion parts that you'll need:
Tapco G2 single hook trigger
Disconnector spring. Not nec. but recommended
Hammer/Trigger pin retaining plate (or shepherd hook wire, or hitch pins/e-clips.) Trust me, get the retaining plate!
Pistol grip nut and bolt.
Trigger guard bolt(s)
Bullet guide kit (see Dinzags website)
Pistol grip of your choice
Buttstock of your choice.
Here are some links to some Saiga conversion parts guys, Dinzag having the best/widest parts selection, look in the 7.62 section and the conversion parts section:
http://www.dinzagarms.com/
http://www.rcmgunparts.com/

Really, don't sweat it, it's much simpler than you think and you end up with a gun that you know top-to-bottom because you put it together.
For 992 compliance, the trigger group, pistol grip, and buttstock make a Saiga complaint. 10 or 15 minutes with a small file will reduce the size of the mag latch enough to allow you to use standard AK mags. If you use standard AK mags and need an extra USA part, go to http://dpharms.com/ak47-ak47-compliance-parts-c-61_23.html?osCsid=d969f5669bd2539e35d4bb1401cfb958 and you can buy US stamped mag floor plates and followers.
Do not waste your money on a US gas piston.
And for more moral support, pics of conversion, and Saiga information, go to the Saiga forum at http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showforum=29

 

[ccsniper]

dont let anyone on here talk you outa getting a saiga. saiga's are good guns, but if you get a 7.62x51 dont expect accuracy passed 400 yards and id say that is pushing it. but i would put a saiga up against any arsenal "quality".

 

[MAKster]

Gun sales after the Clinton laws went into effect tanked because anyone who was even remotely thinking of buying a gun in the foreseeable future bought one before the laws went into effect. THe number of people interested in ARs and AKs is a small fraction of gun owners and gun owners are a fraction of the total population so demand really isn't that high. The reason why there are shortages is because most of the companies that assemble ARs and import AKs are really small so they don't have the ability to ramp up production like other industries. Everyone who is confindent prices for ARs will never go down again should consider the collapse in the price of gasoline as a lesson. A gallon of gas dropped from $3.80 to $1.40 in three months.

 

[nathan]

Get u the SKSs if u want cheap and a semi auto rifle. All of the rest have jumped in prices trying to get your money. The simple and reliable SKS with stripper clips will not disappoint you down the road.

 

[rbernie]

I can remember 3-4 years back when Saiga single stacks used to be like around $179 new in 7.62x39mm.

Saiga never made single-stacks. You are confusing the Saiga (which is a relatively high quality rifle, as far as AKs go) with the Romanian WASR (which is of lesser quality by far).

Still I would love to see a Saiga for $450.00.

Yesterday, I bought another 7.62x39 Saiga for the princely sum of $320 plus tax. They can be found in the pipeline, and they can be bought at non-gouging prices if you have a local FFL that is reasonable and willing to order them in for you.

Converting a Saiga is not hard to do, if you are willing to live without a muzzle device. Threading the muzzle for a muzzle device potentially gets a bit more complicated.

 

[outerlimit]

Saiga never made single-stacks. You are confusing the Saiga (which is a relatively high quality rifle, as far as AKs go) with the Romanian WASR (which is of lesser quality by far).

I definitely know the difference between a WASR and a Saiga.
I used to own an SAR-1 years ago before the WASR's were around much. As far as I know most of the WASR's back then were being chop shopped by importers to accept standard AK mags, unless something has changed now.

I thought I remember the Saiga's being so cheap, BECAUSE they were single stacks and had to be modified to accept standard AK mags. Then they caught on and the price went up. Is this all wrong?

 

[4Freedom]

Well, I know I paid above retail, but I think I did alright considering the situation and how much I wanted an AR. I did not want to wait for such a long time. If AK prices will go back down, I will be more than happy to purchase a Saiga and convert it when prices become reasonble again.

Well, these are my first guns and I am sure I must have spent $1000 or more above retail for all of them. That is not too mention the bloated price of ammo and mags and such. I am sure if gun prices go back down I will be out some money, but at least I didn't have to wait 1 year or more for my guns. And who knows, with these ultra left-wing radicals in power, you may find that the situation is more grim that we can imagine. Obama is Prez, Biden the writer of many gun ban laws is vice prez, Emmanuel (very anti gun, pro-gun ban) is Chief of Staff, Hillary Clinton (wife of the prez who passed the last gun ban) is Sec of State. Congress is runned by Nancy Pelosi and is majority liberal. Well, if there is going to be a nasty gun ban, this would be the time.


As for me, I bought the following BRAND NEW guns after the election and I know I got jacked a bit on each ,but I appreciate to hear people's opinions. Overall, I feel I did ok:

(All prices include shipping)
$1275 - Rock River 5.56 Tactical Carbine A4 w/Chrome line barrel and detachable tactical carry handle w/30rd mag
$1400 - DPMS LR-308 Stainless Steel Bull Barrel w/2 19rd DPMS mags
$890 - DPMS 5.56 Sportical w/2 30rd mags
$600 - Saiga 12 Semi-Auto Shotgun w/mag


I was looking at the retail prices and see that I spent about $100-$200 above retail. I called Rock River and they told me they don't even have a waiting list anymore, that they may indefinately be backordered for a couple years or so. DPMS says 6-12 months.

Well , I hope I did ok.. My first guns, I was willing to fork out a little extra to get them. I have seen people selling everything I bought for even much more than I paid.

 

[berettaprofessor]

Wait...4Freedom, your first post, yesterday at 10:50 p.m. you ask about buying a Saiga, you get a few responses, and then at 4:05 a.m. today you bought a Rock River AR because you're fed up with the AK scene? Were you having an episode? Just for interest, since you didn't want the Saiga at $550, what did you pay for the AR?

 

[4Freedom]

Sorry you responded while I made my post. I bought it for $1250 + $25 shipping brand new . It has the upgrades , like chrome lined barrel and detachable Tactical carry handle. Rock River website says the gun retails for $1080. So I figured I did ok. I don't see this gun losing substantial value, if prices drop.

I am still interested in Saigas, but from talking with people here, I think I better just wait for a price decrease or to find one for under $400, which seems to be the more appropriate price for this gun.]

Another major money saver with me buying another AR is that I have a lot of 5.56 ammo and magazines from my sportical and it would be nice not to have to bulk up on another type of ammo/mags.

 

[aka108]

First Saiga I bought was 159, second 199, third as 299. I can't believe they are now in the 600 range. I've never had one malfunction and they are just as accurate as the Arsenals.

 

[rbernie]

I thought I remember the Saiga's being so cheap, BECAUSE they were single stacks and had to be modified to accept standard AK mags. Then they caught on and the price went up. Is this all wrong?

Sadly, so. They were just cheap because they were, well, unknown and not 'real AKs'. As conversion parts became available commercially, their popularity (and therefore cost) rose.

 

[MikeKeyW]

This has got me thinking about adding a Saiga in 308/7.62x51 to my EBR group. What conversion options do they have?

 

[rbernie]

I have not yet converted my 308s, but my impression was that the 308s were easier to convert than the others because you don't have to plug holes in the receiver or deal with a bullet guide. Other than those two omissions in steps, it's the same as converting any other Saiga, as far as I can tell.

 

[outerlimit]

First Saiga I bought was 159, second 199, third as 299. I can't believe they are now in the 600 range. I've never had one malfunction and they are just as accurate as the Arsenals.

Yea, jeez... I can also remember dealers trying to get rid of excess Saiga 7.62x39's for $159.00. Was the cheapest model. I remember the .223's and .308's demanding a small premium.

$600? Hahaha, I'll save a little bit more and get an AR.. Are the Olympic Arms AR's still going in the $600 range?

 

[nalioth]

Are the Olympic Arms AR's still going in the $600 range?

Any price situation you remember from months ago, is no longer.

Non-gouging vendors are totally out of stock.

Gouging folks have the "$600 Olympics" in stock for $1200

 

[outerlimit]

The local classifieds in the upper midwest are raining AR's and all begging for cash.

I guess it's all about where you live in the country. I would have thought the market in Texas would be a lot better.

 

[wacki]

Not a Saiga fan. They sacrifice all of the virtues of the AK design, simply to keep the action and caliber of the AK. Light weight, short length, folding stock, rugged furniture, plentiful and cheap magazines -- gone, with the Saiga.

All of these problems are easily fixed with a simple 3 hour conversion. Saiga = Russian AK's. Both are made by Izshmash. They just have different furniture.

 

[Duke of Doubt]

It ain't just the furniture.

For one thing, you'll have to get 922 compliant.

For another, you'd have to do a magazine conversion, and buy the magazines, and hope it works.

And lots of luck getting a bayonet or suppressor to fit on the end of that ... thing.

 

[nalioth]

For another, you'd have to do a magazine conversion, and buy the magazines, and hope it works.

Surefire, Master Molder and <urgh> Pro-Mag all offer mags that do not require a bullet guide to function in a Saiga.

And lots of luck getting a bayonet or suppressor to fit on the end of that ... thing.

You, Sir, are fully living up to your forum handle.

AK Front sight base with bayonet lug, threaded 24mm $25.00

All that is needed after that is the AK74 muzzle device of your choice and a bayonet, and you're in business.