anygunanywhere
Member
Guns getting into the wrong hands is only a problem when the law prevents the right hands from obtaining theirs.
Anygun
Anygun
Would you guys be interested in...
- Thread starter brentn
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yesit'sloaded
Member
- Joined
- Aug 15, 2007
- Messages
- 1,662
We've gone from every man a rifleman, that teaches his children about guns from an early age, to a tv nanny and a public school system that does not allow drawings of guns. The only time most kids see guns they are used in a negative way on television. When I was 10, I could safely clear any weapon I came across. As I get older and meet more people I become more and more convinced this had much to do with my upbringing. I know some nice guys that are pro gun and yet are just completely ignorant. Since I was 12 I have had guns in my room with ammunition. I got in fights at school, broke up with girlfriends, and met people I just plain didn't like. At no time did I ever consider getting a gun and shooting them. My friends were pretty much the same growing up. We gave each other black eyes, bruises, and maybe a few concussions, but we never considered murder ever. We all had a parent or parents that loved us and taught us how good people act. I believe that is the key to stop crime. Shoot the bad guys and raise up good guys. My grandfather bought my father a .22 Remington Model 510 for $10 a long time ago. My father passed it down to me and it has yet to be fired negligently or commission of a crime.
Im283
Member
I think everyone is concerned about guns in the wrong hands. But also to be considered is the price it costs to live in a free society. I will take the chances and not have the mans foot on my neck, thank you.
How do you stop someone from driving their cars on sidewalks and killing pedestrians?
How do you stop someone in a shopping mall from punching everyone they walk past in the face?
How do you stop anyone from doing anything that is harmfull to others?
Simple: you enforce the existing laws. Eventually the criminals end up in prison or end up dead and are gradually weeded out of law abiding society. Just the way it is, just the way it's always been, just the way it will always be. Adding laws or restrictions or registrations does not directly affect crime, it only directly affects law abiding citizens.
I personally don't care for exemptions for LEO and Military, what they get to have we non-pro citizens should get to have. Doesn't matter if it's a silencer (my hearing is important too), a switchblade knife (it's just another way to open a blade from the handle and in and of itself isn't evil otherwise LEO wouldn't be allowed to own them), a machinegun, and high capacity handgun, a bulletproof vest, any and all. If someone doesn't have criminal intent then why should they be restricted?
Life is dangerous, wear your seatbelt in a car and a helmet on a bike. Do these things prevent accidents? Nope. Do they reduce crime? Nope. Do they help you to better survive should something happen? Yep. Same with weapons laws, you do the analogy or the math.
well, I would remove the safety training from the firearms license and make it part of the mandatory school system education - firearms safety and functionality. (basic technique? something to consider)
This would both save lives, and distance the safety/licensing requirements.
The only way ANY firearms license should be in the picture if it also acted as a nationwide CCL and/or class 3 registration equivalent.
I don't have an issue with instant background checks.
Mental health screenings for firearms alone doesn't work for me. A Nutcase with a car is a lot more dangerous and more likely to keep killing and get away with it than a nurtcase with a gun. (serial hit and run... )
This would both save lives, and distance the safety/licensing requirements.
The only way ANY firearms license should be in the picture if it also acted as a nationwide CCL and/or class 3 registration equivalent.
I don't have an issue with instant background checks.
Mental health screenings for firearms alone doesn't work for me. A Nutcase with a car is a lot more dangerous and more likely to keep killing and get away with it than a nurtcase with a gun. (serial hit and run... )
frankcostanza
Member
- Joined
- Jul 27, 2007
- Messages
- 268
correct me if im wrong, but up until sometime in the 1960's couldnt you just walk into a store and buy a gun without a background check? so essentially someone who was mentally ill, or ill-intentioned could buy a gun without a problem. i dont remember hearing about very many columbine or virginia tech style massacres from back then. bad people will find a way to do bad things no matter how many restrictions there are or no matter how many hoops you have to jump through. im not at all saying it should be easy for criminals to get guns but as someone stated earlier, its a small price to pay for having the freedom
RockyMtnTactical
Member
- Joined
- Oct 21, 2006
- Messages
- 3,539
This is unrealistic. Bad guys get guns. PERIOD. They don't care about laws...
Yeah, up until 1968.
Matter of fact, I happened to be reading an old issue of The American Rifleman where they described the fact that the Original Ruger Standard was advertised and you just wrote to the company and included a check for --what, $37.50? and they'd mail one to you.
Guess what? I mail ordered the same gun that Oswald did. Sucked. I converted it to .357 Magnum.
And guess what? I remember when the Couch Method described above was the law of the land.
And guess what again? I never felt I needed to carry a handgun until a about three or four years after GCA68.
1911Tuner
Moderator Emeritus
There's the slippery slope. Who gets to determine which hands are right and which ones are wrong?
We now have police officers who can't work any more because of one incident with a wife or girlfriend that happened in the heat of the moment 20 years prior. How long before it gets to the point that if you and your signifigant other have a screamin' cuss-fight...and the neighbors call the police to report the disturbance...and they come and take your guns even though nary a blow has been struck?
How long before any act of violence in your past will get your guns confiscated? Fistfight after a high-school football game in 1968? "Give'em up, son. You've got violent tendencies. This here simple assault charge proves it. He dropped the charges? Doesn't matter. You hit him. He hit you first? What's this guy's name again?"
A DUI that you got after a frat party in med school 30 years ago? "We're here to get your guns, Dr. Smith. Can't have a drunk runnin' around with guns, now can we."
How about a charge of disorderly conduct after you mooned your rival school's basketball coach during your high-school graduation blowout at Myrtle Beach. "You're outta control, man. If you can't keep your pants up in public, you damn sure can't be trusted with a gun."
By making concessions, you're handing our enemies a blank check because as sure as we accept another regulation, another will be forthcoming at whim. There are a gracious plenty regulations on the books now. Everything that can be legally done to "keep'em outta the wrong hands" has already been done, and the criminals just laugh at the rules anyway...and they sincerely hope that we do lose our right to keep and bear arms. It's like ringin' a dinner bell in a hobo jungle.
sm
member
1911Tuner,
Excellent Post Sir!
Excellent Post Sir!
Gunnerpalace
Member
1911 you hit the nail 100% on the head,
And taking a safety class before buying a gun is a stupid idea, why should I waste my day learning stuff I already know.
And taking a safety class before buying a gun is a stupid idea, why should I waste my day learning stuff I already know.
1911Tuner
Moderator Emeritus
Thanks Steve.
The thing is that...our freedoms won't disappear in one fell swoop. They'll go away one nibble at a time, and as long as we're willing to make concessions, they'll just keep nibblin' away until we wake up one day and wonder how the hell it happened...and who's responsible.
Well...Go look in the mirror.
Every time we accept a bite...for the children or for the whales or for the spotted gekos in some corner of a mosquito-infested swamp...we let'em set the standards for "their" idea of what freedom is.
The thing is that...our freedoms won't disappear in one fell swoop. They'll go away one nibble at a time, and as long as we're willing to make concessions, they'll just keep nibblin' away until we wake up one day and wonder how the hell it happened...and who's responsible.
Well...Go look in the mirror.
Every time we accept a bite...for the children or for the whales or for the spotted gekos in some corner of a mosquito-infested swamp...we let'em set the standards for "their" idea of what freedom is.
The bottom line, when it comes to many things, there is a sometimes unconscious calculation of risk versus reward. If you're a criminal, it's a good bit of what you do, or you don't commit much crime. We've all done it, no matter how small (Could I get away with this, and if I were caught, what would happen?).
The whole idea of keeping everyone "safe" from themselves is that those "normal" people who believe in civilization and society will do this calculation and 9 out of 10 times will decide that owning a banned item is wrong (after all, the society is telling them it's bad), and will NOT seek out that thing. Even if they find themselves in grave danger, and that banned item is something that could help them, they're likely to find a substitute, even if it's a poor one.
The criminal mind doesn't care about the risk, because what the person is going to do is made inherently safer by ignoring the ban. In other words, they want to rob someone, which might be difficult, and the risk might not be worth it, to get a few bucks. But if they also ignore a law about a banned weapon, it increases their odds of successfully robbing someone who is likely to not have a weapon. The choice is obvious - ignore the law and use the banned item in your crime. Chances of successfully robbing someone goes up, and the risk that you'll be injured or caught go down, making the entire enterprise more lucrative.
Now, equalize the chances that any particular "mark" for this criminal is at least as well armed as he is - that risk/reward equation begins to look pretty bleak, and more care must be used when picking a victim. The tails of the criminal bell curve will get removed from the population one way or another (they'll either outsmart themselves and not commit the crime, or they'll be outsmarted by a citizen, and be removed from the gene pool).
The whole idea of keeping everyone "safe" from themselves is that those "normal" people who believe in civilization and society will do this calculation and 9 out of 10 times will decide that owning a banned item is wrong (after all, the society is telling them it's bad), and will NOT seek out that thing. Even if they find themselves in grave danger, and that banned item is something that could help them, they're likely to find a substitute, even if it's a poor one.
The criminal mind doesn't care about the risk, because what the person is going to do is made inherently safer by ignoring the ban. In other words, they want to rob someone, which might be difficult, and the risk might not be worth it, to get a few bucks. But if they also ignore a law about a banned weapon, it increases their odds of successfully robbing someone who is likely to not have a weapon. The choice is obvious - ignore the law and use the banned item in your crime. Chances of successfully robbing someone goes up, and the risk that you'll be injured or caught go down, making the entire enterprise more lucrative.
Now, equalize the chances that any particular "mark" for this criminal is at least as well armed as he is - that risk/reward equation begins to look pretty bleak, and more care must be used when picking a victim. The tails of the criminal bell curve will get removed from the population one way or another (they'll either outsmart themselves and not commit the crime, or they'll be outsmarted by a citizen, and be removed from the gene pool).
stephpd
Member
backgroud check
I got a problem with the fact that the FBI has a file on me.
I've never done anything worst then a dui back in the early 80's. Sorry folks, will never happen again. Yes it was dangerous and stupid, I said I was sorry.
Just can't figure what is in that file. Anyone know how to see it? Has anyone ever seen one?
Thought one of those nasty bill of rights was pit there to prevent government from spying on me.
Just don't trust the government.
I got a problem with the fact that the FBI has a file on me.
I've never done anything worst then a dui back in the early 80's. Sorry folks, will never happen again. Yes it was dangerous and stupid, I said I was sorry.
Just can't figure what is in that file. Anyone know how to see it? Has anyone ever seen one?
Thought one of those nasty bill of rights was pit there to prevent government from spying on me.
Just don't trust the government.
sm
member
Privacy went out the window too many years ago.
My Social Security card says : Not for identification purposes.
Oh yes, many of the older survivors were showing tattoos and how a numbering system, of any kind was not a good idea.
Others argued "that war is over, it will never happen again and this SSN is JUST going to be used for Social Security".
I was hit by Identity Theft and one big reason was my mail was gotten into [illegal, laws against that remember?] and My college Student ID was my SSN.
I was fighting, and working with others to get this SSN for Student ID changed.
Too late, mail gotten into and Mail from College with my SSN, along with bank statements with account numbers and Credit card bills, with CC number and nailed.
SSN, used for Employee ID, Health Insurance ID, and everyone that has anything to do with money, like Banks, have that SSN as a means of Identification. Doctors office for medical charting, and Insurance companies and...and...
My SSN card said that number was not for ID - Too late now, that SSN is already on too many databases, and who knows who all has yours?
And your kids?
Kids like me did not have to have a SSN until later years, like getting a first summer job at a real place.
Not at birth one has how much time to get one for a newborn?
1911Tuner, just scratched the surface, I just scratched a bit more.
Once that door is cracked for any reason, the flies come in with all sorts of other diseases and germs.
Database to make sure one does not buy too many boxes of Sudaphed, all in the name of the War on Drugs and Meth.
Big city near me, got Fed money to get this database, you make a purchase, and immediately this database knows you bought a box of Sudaphed and how many you have bought in a 30 day time frame.
You run down to the next store, buy another this one is on file.
If your hubby/ wife gets one, not knowing the other one did.
Red Flag.
Why did this family buy another box over the "regulated limit?"
Now, how hard would it be to add to that database, something else, like Aspirin, or Blood Pressure Meds, or anything.
How hard would it be to say "Citizen, you are not well, you need our Socialized Medicine to take care of you. We will put you in nice place to stay, and you don't need a house to take care of, or a car to drive"
Insurance companies know when one sneezes in a car...
These new tracking devices and chips that know a speed a person is traveling when they are involved in an accident.
Elderly are already been "watched".
Just what a elderly person needs, Big Brother meddling because they bought Tylenol , or Advil , for Arthritis.
Truckers, ask them how well they are tracked on the road, dispatch knows everything about that truck, driver, and route traveled.
All these things in the name of keeping you and yours safe of course...
RFID chips.
Well the first idea was the family pet in case pet got lost - and- adding medical records.
Next I heard was RFID in kids, that would help with Amber Alert.
I have heard it suggested RFID chips in the elderly, with all the medical records.
I have heard to assist on the War in "[]" if money was not out in Society well that would stop a lot of problems, like crime,and look at all the money the Gov't would save in printing money.
Just have an account and do a Retinal Scan and your purchase deducted from your account.
To some this hits a nerve with a Belief System and we don't discuss Religion on THR.
Still a Clergy is one that thought this would be a great idea for his congregation of more elderly folks...
My mind cold cocked him, I kept my smile, and my cool, still I am allowed my thoughts...for a little bit more at least.
There was a time we sent in a clipping of a ad from the back of a magazine for a gun, it came to our front door by the postman, and we paid C.O.D for this gun.
Last one I recall, was a Ruger Standard for $24.50 and I forget the C.O.D charge.
My Social Security card says : Not for identification purposes.
Oh yes, many of the older survivors were showing tattoos and how a numbering system, of any kind was not a good idea.
Others argued "that war is over, it will never happen again and this SSN is JUST going to be used for Social Security".
I was hit by Identity Theft and one big reason was my mail was gotten into [illegal, laws against that remember?] and My college Student ID was my SSN.
I was fighting, and working with others to get this SSN for Student ID changed.
Too late, mail gotten into and Mail from College with my SSN, along with bank statements with account numbers and Credit card bills, with CC number and nailed.
SSN, used for Employee ID, Health Insurance ID, and everyone that has anything to do with money, like Banks, have that SSN as a means of Identification. Doctors office for medical charting, and Insurance companies and...and...
My SSN card said that number was not for ID - Too late now, that SSN is already on too many databases, and who knows who all has yours?
And your kids?
Kids like me did not have to have a SSN until later years, like getting a first summer job at a real place.
Not at birth one has how much time to get one for a newborn?
1911Tuner, just scratched the surface, I just scratched a bit more.
Once that door is cracked for any reason, the flies come in with all sorts of other diseases and germs.
Database to make sure one does not buy too many boxes of Sudaphed, all in the name of the War on Drugs and Meth.
Big city near me, got Fed money to get this database, you make a purchase, and immediately this database knows you bought a box of Sudaphed and how many you have bought in a 30 day time frame.
You run down to the next store, buy another this one is on file.
If your hubby/ wife gets one, not knowing the other one did.
Red Flag.
Why did this family buy another box over the "regulated limit?"
Now, how hard would it be to add to that database, something else, like Aspirin, or Blood Pressure Meds, or anything.
How hard would it be to say "Citizen, you are not well, you need our Socialized Medicine to take care of you. We will put you in nice place to stay, and you don't need a house to take care of, or a car to drive"
Insurance companies know when one sneezes in a car...
These new tracking devices and chips that know a speed a person is traveling when they are involved in an accident.
Elderly are already been "watched".
Just what a elderly person needs, Big Brother meddling because they bought Tylenol , or Advil , for Arthritis.
Truckers, ask them how well they are tracked on the road, dispatch knows everything about that truck, driver, and route traveled.
All these things in the name of keeping you and yours safe of course...
RFID chips.
Well the first idea was the family pet in case pet got lost - and- adding medical records.
Next I heard was RFID in kids, that would help with Amber Alert.
I have heard it suggested RFID chips in the elderly, with all the medical records.
I have heard to assist on the War in "[]" if money was not out in Society well that would stop a lot of problems, like crime,and look at all the money the Gov't would save in printing money.
Just have an account and do a Retinal Scan and your purchase deducted from your account.
To some this hits a nerve with a Belief System and we don't discuss Religion on THR.
Still a Clergy is one that thought this would be a great idea for his congregation of more elderly folks...
My mind cold cocked him, I kept my smile, and my cool, still I am allowed my thoughts...for a little bit more at least.
There was a time we sent in a clipping of a ad from the back of a magazine for a gun, it came to our front door by the postman, and we paid C.O.D for this gun.
Last one I recall, was a Ruger Standard for $24.50 and I forget the C.O.D charge.
Robert Hairless
Member
- Joined
- Oct 11, 2003
- Messages
- 3,983
Yup, before 1968 anyone could buy a gun without a background check if the store wanted to sell it to that person.
We were extremely stupid back then, but not so stupid that stores would routinely sell guns to people who asked for a gun suitable to shoot up a school or commit suicide. Those two questions were among many that we called something like "tipoffs" or "clues" or "duhs." A guy who asked to buy a revolver and only one cartridge ....
Even though we were stupid--I mean real stupid, like sort of bone stupid or unintellectual rock stupid--there was no one in the country except maybe Sarah Brady who was stupid enough to think that any law could prevent any criminal from getting a gun. We all carried around a little slip of paper that read
They stopped issuing those little slips in 1968, which is why most people today don't know it.
2TransAms
Member
Well said,sm,very well said.
Everybody thinks they've got the best plan for gun control. Rules,rules,rules. Licensing,tests,permits. This is good,this is bad,this is regulated,this is ok for some people,this is not ok for some people...
What a steaming load of dookie.
Do some of you think you can find a good middle ground? You think those mental health evals won't get abused? Liberty,man,liberty and responsibility.
Here's my plan: I do what I want, and you do what you want. What I own and what I do with it is my business alone until I get into your business. If you screw up you pay for it. If I screw up then I pay for it. When you decide you're done screwing up,you go along on your merry but hopefully wiser way with no restrictions on what you can and can't do. You can be out in society or you can't. It's that easy.
People get so bent out of shape about guns. I'm more likely to be robbed over the computer than I am at gunpoint. I'm more afraid of idiots in cars than idiots with guns. Mostly I'm afraid of idiots who want to compromise my rights. RIGHTS. Non-negotiable rights...except somewhere we did negotiate,'cuz we were scared. I'm not too concerned about a hypothetical mentally unstable shooter if the whole school/mall/post office is ready to shoot back. I think they'd be few and far between.
Everybody thinks they've got the best plan for gun control. Rules,rules,rules. Licensing,tests,permits. This is good,this is bad,this is regulated,this is ok for some people,this is not ok for some people...
What a steaming load of dookie.
Do some of you think you can find a good middle ground? You think those mental health evals won't get abused? Liberty,man,liberty and responsibility.
Here's my plan: I do what I want, and you do what you want. What I own and what I do with it is my business alone until I get into your business. If you screw up you pay for it. If I screw up then I pay for it. When you decide you're done screwing up,you go along on your merry but hopefully wiser way with no restrictions on what you can and can't do. You can be out in society or you can't. It's that easy.
People get so bent out of shape about guns. I'm more likely to be robbed over the computer than I am at gunpoint. I'm more afraid of idiots in cars than idiots with guns. Mostly I'm afraid of idiots who want to compromise my rights. RIGHTS. Non-negotiable rights...except somewhere we did negotiate,'cuz we were scared. I'm not too concerned about a hypothetical mentally unstable shooter if the whole school/mall/post office is ready to shoot back. I think they'd be few and far between.
Wildfire
Member
New system
Here is the biggest problem I see with your new plan. No Testing !
There is nothing in the 2A about being tested. We really do not need a system overhaul. We need to get rid of the system Period. This right we all speak of was not to be infringed upon AT ALL. Not regulated not registered, not licensed. When a crime is commited we deal with it. Making the bad guys afraid of us sounds like a better way of living in peace. A good healthy fear of dieing will deter more crime then all the laws on the planet.
But I will say looks like you are thinking. Thats a good thing.
Here is the biggest problem I see with your new plan. No Testing !
There is nothing in the 2A about being tested. We really do not need a system overhaul. We need to get rid of the system Period. This right we all speak of was not to be infringed upon AT ALL. Not regulated not registered, not licensed. When a crime is commited we deal with it. Making the bad guys afraid of us sounds like a better way of living in peace. A good healthy fear of dieing will deter more crime then all the laws on the planet.
But I will say looks like you are thinking. Thats a good thing.
Wildfire
Member
Arfin Makes sense.
Sorry bud but, I vote with these guys, Way to many rules. We need to take back our rights. We let them go. Our leaders swore an oath to uphold our rights. They have not done that yet.
All this crap about licenses and registrations and regulations needs to go.
The mental testing thing? Who would you trust to do that?
The same gov. that dont trust you to start with.?
I might wait till the kid is a little older than 12 but, the idea sounds pretty good. And maybe bring back the draft would not be such a bad idea. Give some of these bad boys someone to respect. Look at how many going to be bad boys it would take off the street. And maybe even change them.
Sorry bud but, I vote with these guys, Way to many rules. We need to take back our rights. We let them go. Our leaders swore an oath to uphold our rights. They have not done that yet.
All this crap about licenses and registrations and regulations needs to go.
The mental testing thing? Who would you trust to do that?
The same gov. that dont trust you to start with.?
I might wait till the kid is a little older than 12 but, the idea sounds pretty good. And maybe bring back the draft would not be such a bad idea. Give some of these bad boys someone to respect. Look at how many going to be bad boys it would take off the street. And maybe even change them.
1911Tuner
Moderator Emeritus
Lemme scratch a little deeper, Steve...
Notice how often we see the debit/check cash card push on the tube these days? We're headed for a cashless monetary system, and we can all guess what that entails.
Think that your interests aren't well-known by the fed? Hmmm. Anybody got a gun rag subscription? How about NRA material delivered to you by...guess who! That's right. The second largest federal agency in the country, right behind the IRS...and your material comes to you printed with big, bold block letters that make its contents unmistakeable. No need to invade your privacy to know what it is. It's there for all to see.
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