Would you remove a mag safety from a collector gun?

[ewlyon]

Hi all,
So I am looking at buying a couple of Sauer 38h pistols (both very good condition). I am a big fan of the design in general and would be buying these mainly as collection pieces but also as shooters and occasional carry guns. The only hitch is that I don't use pistols with magazine safeties for anything serious. If it can be removed without damaging the gun I have always removed it.
After looking at a parts schematic it looks like the mag safety would be fairly easy to remove without any permanent modifications. My personal inclination would be to take the parts out, toss them in a bag, and keep them with the pistols.
What do you all think? Would you remove the mag safeties or leave them in and just reserve the pistols for target work only?

 

[ColtPythonElite]

It's your gun. Do what makes you happy.

 

[Deus Machina]

Mag safeties don't bother me much as long as they don't affect the feel of the gun.
But like you mentioned, the one thing I wouldn't do is permanently alter the gun. If they can be put back in, go ahead and tuck them away in a bag.

 

[tark]

I don't blame you for wanting to remove the wretched things, and I would do it myself. Since they can be easily replaced, without hurting any collectors value, there is no reason not to.

Do it.

 

[Slamfire]

Hi all,
So I am looking at buying a couple of Sauer 38h pistols (both very good condition). I am a big fan of the design in general and would be buying these mainly as collection pieces but also as shooters and occasional carry guns. The only hitch is that I don't use pistols with magazine safeties for anything serious. If it can be removed without damaging the gun I have always removed it.
After looking at a parts schematic it looks like the mag safety would be fairly easy to remove without any permanent modifications. My personal inclination would be to take the parts out, toss them in a bag, and keep them with the pistols.
What do you all think? Would you remove the mag safeties or leave them in and just reserve the pistols for target work only?

I looked up the Sauer 38h and found they were only made from 1938 -1945. I have a war time P38 and I think the slave laborer's were doing things on the production line to sabotage production. I think it is risky to use a wartime Nazi pistol, especially if it is 1943 or later, production Nazi firearm, for self protection. If you are not going to use it for self protection just leave the parts in the thing.

But, if you are really, really going to carry it in self defense, and disabling the magazine safety does not make the pistol unreliable, then disconnect the thing. I don't like magazine safeties and find them a source of unreliability. Your magazine may slightly unlatch and you can't fire the round in the chamber. Accidental discharges happen with magazine safeties, shooters want to dry fire their pistol and they have to ram a magazine in the thing, only to find, the magazine was loaded. Bang!

 

[cfullgraf]

Would you remove the mag safeties or leave them in and just reserve the pistols for target work only?

No, leave the pistols as is for enjoying at the range on a nice afternoon.

I agree with Slamfire.

 

[MedWheeler]

As long as disabling the safety had no negative effects on shooting/handling/whatever, and I was confident I would not lose any removed parts, I'd disable it once I decided the gun was going to be used for anything other than enjoyment shooting. I wouldn't disable it until then, though, as I'd prefer to keep all the parts together for as long as possible.

 

[lysanderxiii]

Hi all,
So I am looking at buying a couple of Sauer 38h pistols (both very good condition). I am a big fan of the design in general and would be buying these mainly as collection pieces but also as shooters and occasional carry guns. The only hitch is that I don't use pistols with magazine safeties for anything serious. If it can be removed without damaging the gun I have always removed it.
After looking at a parts schematic it looks like the mag safety would be fairly easy to remove without any permanent modifications. My personal inclination would be to take the parts out, toss them in a bag, and keep them with the pistols.
What do you all think? Would you remove the mag safeties or leave them in and just reserve the pistols for target work only?

For a Sauer 38h - no.

 

[Zaydok Allen]

See post #5 by Slamfire.

 

[cowboy77845]

Seems to me those Sauer pistols at this point in time are more for looking at rather than using in serious social situations. You have no clue about the reliability of internals or whether they were made by elves in the Black Forest or slave labor. Not cool to gamble in serious social situations. I'd leave them as is and enjoy owning and looking at them and maybe showing them off. But carrying, "Not Hardly".

 

[ATLDave]

Backing up a step, I don't think I would carry anything with significant collector value. Carry can be hard on guns, even setting aside the (extremely unlikely) risk of confiscation if used in a self-defense incident.

 

[ewlyon]

Thanks for the input. It is helpful to get a variety of opinions. I think I will go with my gut and end up removing the mag safeties, just making sure that it does not damage the gun and that I do not lose the parts.
As a sidenote, I have no intention of carrying these as a primary gun or anything like that, but for my pistols everything that is not a single shot or a .22 must be the type of gun that I would have no problem trusting for carry. Just a personal quirk for handguns. If these were late war models where quality really dropped off then I wold not be interested but they look to be early war production so my thinking is that the mechanics should be good.

 

[JohnKSa]

I am a big fan of the design in general and would be buying these mainly as collection pieces but also as shooters and occasional carry guns.

If you're unconcerned about carrying a collection piece, then I don't see why you would be concerned about modifying it. Carry is hard on guns, and if something happens and you have to use it, there's a good chance it could end up in an evidence room for a long period. It won't exactly be treated with loving care in that situation...

I do think that you need to be able to demod the guns before you sell them as the absence of a safety mechanism that is expected to be in place can result in unpleasant incidents.

Also, I'm not a big fan of modifying the safety mechanisms on carry guns. There are just too many options out there to make it logical to carry a gun with safety features you dislike so much you feel you have to modify them when you could just buy something that's already ideal.

 

[GBExpat]

If you're unconcerned about carrying a collection piece, then I don't see why you would be concerned about modifying it. ...

This ... especially with an easily reversed modification.

 

[lysanderxiii]

Thanks for the input. It is helpful to get a variety of opinions. I think I will go with my gut and end up removing the mag safeties, just making sure that it does not damage the gun and that I do not lose the parts.
As a sidenote, I have no intention of carrying these as a primary gun or anything like that, but for my pistols everything that is not a single shot or a .22 must be the type of gun that I would have no problem trusting for carry. Just a personal quirk for handguns. If these were late war models where quality really dropped off then I wold not be interested but they look to be early war production so my thinking is that the mechanics should be good.

I would advise against it.

You'll find that removing the magazine safety disconnect is not always a reversible operation. The lever one some is riveted in place.



As an aside, I wish someone made a .380 version of these . . .

 

[Walt Sherrill]

A collectible gun can have extra value if: 1) it has low mileage and looks like new, 2) comes with original box and paperwork (manuals, etc.), and 3) hasn't been modified in ways that can't be reversed. Worn, no orignal box/papers, etc. and the value begins to drop -- sometimes significantly.

Older guns are a lot like older cars -- an "original" "collectible" car generally brings more money than one that has been modified, or one that has been restored. An older car that has been customized seldom brings in big dollars unless the "customizer" has a following -- then the customizer's work, more than the car, is the value-added.​

As others have said, directly or indirectly, if you're going to shoot it more than once a decade, it's going to start showing wear that decreases value for any collector willing to pay a premium price. If it's going to be a shooter, keep the mods reversible.

 

[BSA1]

Thanks for the input. It is helpful to get a variety of opinions. I think I will go with my gut and end up removing the mag safeties, just making sure that it does not damage the gun and that I do not lose the parts.

Just a thought for others that have old guns.

Finding old guns that have not been altered is becoming very difficult. One does not have to look very hard to see the prices they bring. For example pay a visit to the Smith & Wesson Forum and see how much interest there is in WWII Victory Model revolvers in original wartime condition. Then see how little value altered ones have. Even small changes like with the grips have a impact on interest and value.

I enjoy shooting old guns as they were originally made. Not only is it a throwback to another era but also represents what was considered state of the art and the attitudes about what features a gun should have.

 

[tactikel]

Two thoughts: I would never carry a SD weapon of any personal or historic value, if you ever use it is likely gone into the bowels of the court system, modifying ANY safety feature may expose you to liability.

 

[rskent]

My two thoughts:

If you have to use a firearm to protect you self or your family its cost or value will become irrelevant. You can always get a new gun. Family member, not so much. So, carry what you like and what makes you comfortable.

Modifying a safety feature could indeed expose you to liability. As far as the magazine safety, I guess if you had a ND with the magazine out and someone got hurt… I guess you would have to decide if the risk is worth the reward.

 

[bannockburn]

ewlyon

Another thing to consider is that besides possibly being assembled by slave laborers, depending on when your Sauer 38h pistols were built, there is a concern that late war production guns might also suffer from poor quality raw materials and improper (or none at all) heat treatment, making them unsafe to use. I would try to verify the date they were built and have them checked out thoroughly by a qualified gunsmith before using them.

 

[Eugen]

Add me to the list of commenters that admire collecting and perhaps occasionally shooting such "collector" guns. I do it myself.

But, forget the idea of using it as a CCW or for a SD gun. For that use pony up for a modern weapon. A new gun with all the obvious benefits is not that expensive.