Would you shoot a fleeing intruder in the back?

Would you shoot a fleeing intruder in the back if on your property?

  • No.

    Votes: 290 68.2%

  • Yes, it's my property, I have the right.

    Votes: 21 4.9%

  • Yes, but only if he/she refused to stop.

    Votes: 10 2.4%

  • Yes, if they were armed.

    Votes: 72 16.9%

  • Yes, but only if he/she was fleeing with my stolen property.

    Votes: 32 7.5%
  • Total voters
    425
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If he's in the house, it's a no-brainer... he's toast.

But if he's merely "on the property," that's a bit more dicey (as others have suggested).

Here in Kali, if he's not actually in the house and I shoot him in the back I'm probably going to jail, and I'd just as soon not go to jail over a TV set. On the other hand, if he's just molested my daughter, hell, I'll chase him to the ends of the earth and shoot him any way I can.

So it's a judgment call.

Best, Ops
 
I wonder of the almost 300 posts to the question, how many members have actually had a weapon trained on an intruder? How many have actually fired a shot at an intruder? Like others on this site, as a Vietnam veteran who was in combat; we may have experience in shooting someone, but what we would do in our home is something else. I, for one, would not shoot a fleeing thief. Too many things that may could be wrong; teenager, drunk, drugged up old man looking for goods to fence, etc. Although most of us have never had a situation where "deadly force" was necessary, I think it interesting to review questions like this; almost like mental target practice so if the "real thing" happens, it would be more of a reflex than a time consuming thought process. JMHO (where's spell check when you need it?) :)
 
Bear 2000

I posted this question because of the support some on this board showed for the British farmer who was jailed after shooting two intruders in his home. They were both fleeing the scene, and he shot them both, killing the sixteen year-old with a shot to the back. See:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=419066
QUOTE]

I'd note that British legislation, and more importantly the non gun-owning Public who comprise the juror pool is significantly different. At best, this makes drawing meaningful comparisons difficult.

For example, I'm aware of a rural SD incident (not in the UK) in which a farmer on an isolated property shot and wounded a "fleeing" armed thief. However, in this case the local Police declined to prosecute. The reasons, as I understand them, being:

- gunfire had already been exchanged;
- the thieves had maneuvered, while shooting, back to their vehicle (for cover, for use as a potential weapon, or to escape?);
- the farmer was outnumbered;
- the farmer was outgunned; and
- the farmer had no reasonable expectation of any Police assistance during the incident.

Similarly, there is also the famous Harry Beckwith incident . Where engaging "fleeing" criminals could have quite easily come about.

As you can see it is not outside the bounds of reality that a scenario could exist where lethal force would be justifiable for individuals who are supposedly "fleeing".
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However: Were I seated on a jury there the trial involved someone who did I'd never vote to convict.
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Even if it were a clear case of an execution?
 
mgkdrgn

ohio might be a little different on property
up to and including your car or truck but you have to be in it
you can check this out ccw laws and go to state of ohio i am not 1oo percent sure i was just skimming over it the other day i might want to get a ccw licensebut im not sure if i will ever be in a place were i would have to use a gun except defending my home ?
if i try to get one it would be to see if i could pass the course
PM VARGO
 
Not enough information to make an educated comment. Is the felon IN the house, are otheres who may be harmed between him and the exit? Has he already hurt or killed a member of the house, or has he stolen something?

Answer these and Ill answer...thanky!
 
Even if it were a clear case of an execution?
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Kleanbore, you seem alittle too hung up on the exception of this scenario. Clearly, there are cases where it would be over the top and totally overkill to shoot a guy who is A. off your property fleeing, B. not a threat anymore (example: the burglars portrayed in American History X who were already on the ground) etc...

But back to my initial assertion, I would more often then not, shoot a person who is unlawfully in my house before I'd ask him for a list of intentions and perform a blood/alcohol test on him before I decided to excersize my right to defend my home and family. I am not going to second guess myself and wait to see if there are any other circumstances that might have led this individual to my house. The only thing I'm worried about is A. Is this person in my house illegally? and B. How can I best insure both me and my families' safety? If the answer to question A. is "YES", then the answer (more often than not) to B. will be to immediatly take control of the perp (i.e. by force if necessary) not asking him to turn around politely leave out the front door as has been implied. I'm no "Punisher" type, but I'm also not some bleeding heart that wants to give the perp every opportunity to victimize me and my family. Sorry, but I'm not playing the game of "What if" when it comes to safety. A perps safety is last on my list of priorities.
 
How can you be sure he's not turning to grab the knives in the kitchen? Or to grab your kid as a hostage. Or to yell to his buddy outside with a shotgun to come inside? Or to get behind some cover and draw his gun?

Many jurisdictions also allow you to use lethal force to stop a dangerous felony in progress.

Unless it's CLEAR that he's retreating and fleeing or giving up (through the aggregate of actions, words, etc.) then I think if you still feel in danger of life or serious bodily harm then you are justified to shoot in most circumstances/states.

Keep in mind that in almost no jurisdictions are property rights greater than human life. If you shoot to defend property alone, most jurisdictions will arrest you and probably prosecute.
 
Unless it's CLEAR that he's retreating and fleeing or giving up (through the aggregate of actions, words, etc.) then I think if you still feel in danger of life or serious bodily harm then you are justified to shoot in most circumstances/states.
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Depending on the law in your state--and especially, assuming that you have a castle law--I think you are right . Lay opinion.
 
EHL said:

I agree with Cotton mouth. I'm not sure if any of you realize that material possesions represent a portion of your life. You spent a portion of your life to earn the money to buy that possesion. By somebody stealing that possesion, they just robbed you of a portion of your life that you spent earning that possesion. It's not merely a TV anymore, it's a part of your life that you spent slaving away scrimping and saving for that object. With it stolen, all of that TIME was just "given" to that burglar. That is akin to a partial murder. Imagine if he cleans you out. Do you know how much time you invested in earning all of that? That's a portion of your life that he just made off with!
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By this token, Paulson, Bernanke, Greenspan, and their Wall Street insiders should be suffering from severe lead poisoning for robbing the taxpaying segment of the US population. And they should be, as in the coming years we are assured of the dollar's inflation/collapse in the face of enormous deficits and debt, and the concomitant drop in the standard of living.
 
No, and for several reasons, the most primary of which to me is that it wouldn't be worth the legal hassle afterward (even if no charges were filed).
 
By this token, Paulson, Bernanke, Greenspan, and their Wall Street insiders should be suffering from severe lead poisoning for robbing the taxpaying segment of the US population. And they should be, as in the coming years we are assured of the dollar's inflation/collapse in the face of enormous deficits and debt, and the concomitant drop in the standard of living.
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Umm... Yes please?
 
Drag this back on topic and away from the economy and tax code, or it will get closed. You don't need X-ray vision to see through fig leaves. ;)

Mike
 
An L.A. cop once told me that once they turn their back, they are no longer a threat, and you should do nothing at that point.
 
Instructive example/answer learned by the US Border Patrol?

I voted "no".

Do you think US BP agents Compean and Ramos would have avoided the trouble they are in, if they had shot Osvaldo Aldrete-Davila somewhere a bit more frontal than the buttocks? See:

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/jan/15/convicted-border-patrol-agents-hoping-for-bush-par/
(2nd-page, next to last paragraph, as web-formated in this link)

BTW, does anybody know why these BP agents reveived such a heavy sentence (~ 11 years)? The "govey" types I know are mystified and speculate that there must be more to the case than has been made public, else the convictions, much less the heavy sentences, make no sense at all....
 
Generally I would say no. That is the safest way to stay on the right side of the law.

Although, if I had either witnessed or it was clear that this fleeing subject caused obvious physical harm to any of my family or self I would shoot. Correct me if I am wrong but it is legal to shoot fleeing felons. You are still burdened with the evidence that you knew they had commited a felon before shooting. But at least you don't have to let the murderer of your wife, for instance, get away just because he has his back turned on you and is running away like a rat because he can only prey on the weak.
 
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