Wrote Wikipedia article for .41 Special; anyone have photos/sources?

[MatthewVanitas]

I've been interested in this cartridge for years, despite never having dealt personally with it, nor even the .41 Magnum. I suppose I just have a fascination with great ideas that just never made it (which is why I ride a recumbent bicycle).

I finally got around to writing a Wikipedia article on the cartridge, and ensured that every fact in it was clearly cited to a formal source, not just hearsay:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.41_Special


Is anyone able to help spruce this up with either of the following?

• Any images of a .41 Special, ideally of the overall cartridge, and one of properly headstamped brass (like the custom Starline run). It must be a photo that you yourself own the copyright to, or one that has been explicitly released as Public Domain/Creative Commons. It cannot be just something off some website, even if that person doesn't explicitly label it as a copyright (copyright is default, lacking any evidence to the contrary).
• Providing facts/specifics which are explicitly cited to professional sources. I'm sure there are older books/articles mentioning this which just aren't traceable online, so if someone has such a paper copy, we can cite that book for additional facts about the stunted history of the cartridge.
• If anyone is a proficient speaker of another language (and knows gun terminology in it), I could use your help to render this article into German, or any other languages likely to have gun hobbyists who would find the article helpful.

While I'd be happy to hear any personally-known facts about the cartridge here in the thread, I want to keep the actual Wikipedia up to proper standards with only fully-cited material. Not trying to be picky or pedantic, just trying to keep gun articles on the high-quality end of the Wikipedia pool. Thanks to anyone who can help out with an image, cited facts, or who just has a thumbs-up for this new article.

 

[ku4hx]

If nobody here can, these guys might can help: http://www.shootingtimes.com/ammo/ammunition_ready_for_the_41_special_040711/

 

[RealGun]

Ah yes, all things must flow from academia. Never mind that the entire discipline of reloading is informal and organic, once past the powder and bullet companies' publications and the engineering of equipment companies.

 

[MifflinKid]

I would pose your request on

sassnet.com

. The .41 Special had a cult following in the CAS arena some time ago.

 

[CraigC]

I'll have to dig out the issue but I've got the original article (~1989) Taffin did on the first Bowen custom Colt SAA's. One of which was a 5½" .41Spl that I do believe preceded any of the DA's in that chambering.

A bit of terminology adjustment may be in order. It is impossible to "rechamber" a .22LR Single Six to .41Spl. "Rechambering" involves reaming a new, larger chamber from a smaller one. In fact, the operation requires enlarging the frame window and building a new oversized five-shot cylinder from scratch. It can also only be done on an Old Model. I don't recall who did it first but Gallagher is not the only one who builds, or has built them. David Clements and Alan Harton for sure and probably a few others.

 

[MikeJackmin]

Thank you for taking the time to do this. Wikipedia may have its faults, but I find it an invaluable reference for any sort of technical topic. It only works because people like you take the time to make it right.

This is an interesting link:

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=464167555

The gentleman who wrote this might be in a position to help you out with photos or perhaps additional information.

 

[BobWright]

Matthew,

For whatever its worth, here is a photo of an old .400 Special compared to a .41 Magnum round:




This round was given to me by my gunsmith, Keith Warner. Keith had gotten the round from the late H.L. Highsmith.

The story of this round is that Mr. Highsmith, a very highly respected gunsmith of his day, made up some Colt Single Actions and New Service revovers for this round, which was based on the .303 Savage case. The purpose for these conversions was to create a revolver suitable for hunting wild hogs, deer and black bear. This was done from horseback in the thickets around oxbow lakes in the Mississippi Delta. This by exclusive hunting clubs, usually composed of wealthy cotton men of the day, "the day" being the late 'Twenties and early 'Thirties, the Nineteen Twenties, that is. Mr. Cordra York, owner of York Arms here in Memphis, once told me of having such a revolver, a New Service.

I believe this is very close to, if not a duplicate, of the .401 Eimer of the same period.

Bob Wright

 

[tipoc]

First thanks for entering the piece in wikipedia, it's a good start.

Keith and Bill Jordan later proposed the .41 Magnum cartridge, which was formally adopted by Remington Arms in 1964.

A small bone though...Keith developed the 41 Magnum cartridge and then recruited both Bill Jordan and Skeeter Skelton to help him promote it with both ammo manufacturers and S&W and Ruger. Neither man played a role in it's development. Neither were as committed to it as Keith.

You can read a bit more about some of that here...

http://www.realpolice.net/forums/archive/t-32424.html

http://www.shootingtimes.com/handguns/handgun_reviews_st_myfavmag_201008/


tipoc

 

[peacemaker45]

I meddled with your wording a little bit.

Another possibility for improvement would be to give a brief overview of previous .41 caliber offerings, like the old Short and Long Colt flavors.

 

[CraigC]

I meddled with your wording a little bit.

If you're gonna do that and go editing the guy's article, let's pick some more nits by saying that 99% of the .41Spl's are made by rechambering from smaller cartridges like the .357Mag. Not by building or "machining" new cylinders. In fact, the custom five-shot Single Sixes are the only .41's that come to mind that require a new cylinder.

Barrels are rebored and re-rifled, not "expanded" or "widened".

 

[RealGun]

My understanding about the 41 Special conversion I have planned is that the barrel must be sent out to be rebored, making the lead time difficult to state. The candidate gun is a 3" GP100 with adjustable sights and chambered in 38 Special.

 

[CraigC]

Reboring barrels is a specialized process, there's only a few that do this. Most custom gunsmiths doing revolver work use the shop previously run by Cliff LaBounty.

EDIT: Clearwater Reboring, a division of Delta Gun Shop.

http://www.deltagunshop.com/custom_shop/index.html

 

[BobWright]

Well, for some old .41s:






Bob Wright

 

[Deaf Smith]

http://www.shootingtimes.com/ammo/ammunition_ready_for_the_41_special_040711/

Try that article.

And..
http://shop.reedsammo.com/41-Special_c163.htm

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/559371/quality-cartridge-reloading-brass-41-special-box-of-50

Deaf

 

[MagnumDweeb]

Can someone please explain to me why this round is a big deal. Most of the loads I've seen for the .41 magnum aren't really harsh loads, so it just looks like someone is watering down the round to .45 ACP levels (maybe +P with lighter bullets).

 

[CraigC]

The .41Spl is a round more appropriate to .357-sized revolvers than the .41Mag. Sixguns like mid-frame Ruger Blackhawks, Colt SAA's, S&W L-frames, Ruger GP100, etc. are easily rebored and rechambered for the .41Spl. In stronger guns like the SAA, 215's at 1200fps are easy.

 

[RealGun]

Allows a sixgun in the same platform that would have to be 5 shot in 44 S&W Special..

 

[Deaf Smith]

The .41Spl is a round more appropriate to .357-sized revolvers than the .41Mag. Sixguns like mid-frame Ruger Blackhawks, Colt SAA's, S&W L-frames, Ruger GP100, etc. are easily rebored and rechambered for the .41Spl. In stronger guns like the SAA, 215's at 1200fps are easy.

It can be done!

There is a company that gets GP100s and turns them into 10mm revolvers.

I can see a six shot GP100 3 inch DAO .41 Special!

It would be a cool carry gun.

Deaf

 

[CraigC]

Yes, it can.

http://singleactions.proboards.com/thread/14035/another-clements-gp100-stainless-hunting

 

[BigG]

41 Special? Ain't no such thing. I won't talk up something that's a figment. 38 Special is still OK.

 

[BobWright]

BibG said: 41 Special? Ain't no such thing. I won't talk up something that's a figment. 38 Special is still OK.

No such thing as a .41 Special? I believe Starline produces brass for it.

And the .38 Special, and even the .357 Magnum, often go lacking in the dense woods.

Bob Wright

 

[BobWright]

Incidentally, most of the old custom revolvers were actually .40 caliber rather than true .41. Most of the conversions were made on Colt SAA or New Service revolvers. Cylinders could be had in .38 Special or .38 Colt and were good for re-chambering. And either .38-40 barrels or .41 Long Colt barrels could be fitted, both of which ran .401" thus easing the conversions.

Bob Wright

 

[RealGun]

There is a company that gets GP100s and turns them into 10mm revolvers.

I can see a six shot GP100 3 inch DAO .41 Special!

It would be a cool carry gun.

Deaf

Just sent my GP100 3" 38 Special w/adj sights off to Clement Custom for his 41 Special conversion package.