WWII fighter pilot blasts away at intruder

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Yoda

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While visiting family this past week, one of my relatives related an incident that happened to him about two months ago. This relative just turned 90, and he was credited with several air-to-air kills during the "big one." (A local paper published in the 1940s credited him with 6 1/2 shoot downs in the Mediterranean Theater.)

Anyway, he needed some work done on his small farm, but his daughter urged him not to hire anyone until she was visiting him, so any crew that helped him out would not get the idea that he lives alone. He hired a six-man crew anyway.

The first night after the crew started work, he was up going to the can in the middle of the night, and he heard an odd noise in back of his house. He armed himself with the same 410 shotgun with #4 shot that he uses on Armadillos and started toward the portion of the house where both the front and back doors are. Then he heard someone trying to pry the back door open.

He took up a position in the kitchen where he could see anyone coming through the door and out of the connecting the laundry room. The intruder got the door open, traversed the laundry room, then saw the relative with the shotgun. He did a quick about-face, tripped over some laundry on the floor, and ran outside. The relative followed, thought he saw the bad guy try to hide behind a thick post about 50 feet away, and took a shot. The bad guy then ran off. My relative didn't see any car, but it could have been in a nearby wood.

The relative thought he "winged him." He called another relative who was working in the nearest hospital emergency room and asked her to watch for anyone coming in with shotgun wounds, but by the end of her shift, no one had.

An inspection of the thick post the next morning confirmed that the some of the shot had hit the post, so it is possible the bad guy was included in the pattern. However, I'm wondering what sort of penetration a 410 with #4 shot would have at 50 feet, especially if the bad guy had any sort of jacket on.

The next morning, when the work crew showed up, they were one man short, and they were unusually quiet all day. They watched him replace the lock and latch on the back door.

Today, he says he would have used different tactics. He says he should have used cover/concealment in the living room rather than stand in the middle of the kitchen. He also says he picked up the 410 out of habit, leaving behind the S&W 625 with two full-moon clips of Taurus copper hollowpoints that I've left for his use in cases like this. He also noted that the night light he leaves on would have been behind him, silhouetting him to any intruder while leaving the intruder unilluminated.

My relative never called the cops. He just doesn't think much of the local police, doesn't want the hassle, and figures he resolved the situation himself.

- - - Yoda
 
It might be easier to hit with the .410 than with the revolver. Maybe you should look in to getting him a
.22 rifle, or 9mm carbine.
 
Old guys with pacemakers...

410s and .22s are the most his doctor recommends, given his pacemaker and such. The .45 ACP revolver really would be for life-threatening situations, but you never know what's going to turn into a life-threatening situation. I guess you're right: A light-recoiling carbine would probably be better.

Thanks.

- - - Yoda
 
If he has a pacemaker I guess that's different. I don't know how much a 9mm carbine recoils. Might also want to find out how much a .410 slug or buckshot load recoils, probably a lot more than birdshot. Or, again not knowing how much it recoils, so research this too, a .223 carbine.
 
Probably not a good idea to shoot/ shoot at somebody without reporting it, especially if the cops are pains in the butt like what it sounds like.
 
Wouldn't it be best to keep quiet about this incident? I assume if he didn't want the police to know about it, he wouldn't want anyone knowing about it.
 
Sounds like his next gift should be a Hi-Point 9mm/40sw carbine.
Are you listening Santa? :D
 
Probably not a good idea to shoot/ shoot at somebody without reporting it, especially if the cops are pains in the butt like what it sounds like.

+1 - Although it is a bit late two months after the fact, I certainly would have retained a 'good' criminal lawyer to handle it. Remember what Massod said, the first person to call in to 911 is usually categorized as the victim.
 
IMO, he chose the right weapon, as it's much easier to cover an area and it will put a hurtin' on someone.
The criminal probably thought it would be easy pickings from an old man, but the BG found out that Yesterday's Hero still could get it done.

NCsmitty
 
The relative followed,
Not always a good idea, legally or tactically
thought he saw the bad guy try to hide behind a thick post about 50 feet away, and took a shot.
I'm sure he thought the BG had hunkered down behind cover and he thought he saw him drawing a gun. That would absolutely be my version of events if I had taken that shot.
The bad guy then ran off. My relative didn't see any car, but it could have been in a nearby wood.
And I'm positive he pursued him outside in order to be a good witness and try to get a tag number on the car. Again, this would be my version of events if I had done this.

Caveat: NEVER lie to the police. NEVER lie on the stand. By logical extension, don't put yourself in a position where you have to do either of those things. Have a legal reason for doing what you did. If I shot someone, it would be because I was in genuine fear for my life, or to protect another. When I say "this would have been my version of events", I'm being truthful. I'm sure he would be, too.
Wouldn't it be best to keep quiet about this incident? I assume if he didn't want the police to know about it, he wouldn't want anyone knowing about it.
Probably.
The next morning, when the work crew showed up, they were one man short, and they were unusually quiet all day. They watched him replace the lock and latch on the back door.
Sounds like the message got sent and delivered. Glad the old Ace is ok, and I'm glad he can still shoot straight.

Mike
 
Sounds like the old man handled it pretty well to me.

The guy ran out the door and hid, but the old man shot him anyway?

I'm thinking that no-one decides to call the police at all.

Like I said, looks like the old man handled everything just fine by himself.
 
410s and .22s are the most his doctor recommends, given his pacemaker and such

I was reading "pacemaker" as "peacemaker", referring to the .45, and I was thinking, he may be 90, but he can still handle a .45, hell my grandpa is 88 and still hunts with a 7mm mag. It makes a little more sense now :)
 
Seems to me...

When the relative was telling me about the incident, I had the same thought as many of you about him shooting at the guy after he had run and tried to hide. On reflection, I think this act could be justified in court.

A 90-year-old man in marginal health has already chased an intruder out of his house, but the intruder didn't run away. Instead, he tried to hide in the dark, still in the immediate vicinity of the old man. The warrior from an earlier era is now all alone, The nearest neighbor to the east is at least a half mile away, and in all other directions, there's no one for at least three miles. Police response time to that area averages about 30 minutes....

... and the bad guy is still a threat. He's still in the immediate vicinity, lurking in the dark, and he can attack at any time. The prudent thing to do is to try to drive him all the way off or to neutralize him. The risk of just letting him be, trying to hide in the dark only 50 feet away, is just too great to expect the old aviator to accept.

Shoot? Shoot! What else would you do, if you were him? How do you know there aren't others hiding in the dark? It's easy to evaluate his actions in the calm of retrospect, but standing there alone in the dark, heart pounding, not knowing what else you can't see, not knowing if you're going to be dead or alive the next minute, you have to do something right then.

It's the bad guy's fault for putting the old warrior in such a dilemma. I just hope he actually took a few pellets and they really hurt.

- - - Yoda
 
On reflection, I think this act could be justified in court.
The important thing would seem to be to articulate the fear of death or immediate bodily harm.

Coronach's post is the most succinct and reasonable reply you're likely to see.

I'm also gratified to read that the old Ace is still thinkin' enough to replay his actions, critique them honestly, and come up with a better plan for next time (should there be a next time).
 
Why would he need anything else but the .410? Who's to say that a .223 or a pistol caliber carbine would have served any better? Looks to me like he's got more hits (and kills) to his credit than probably all but a few on this board. Maybe he know's something we haven't learned yet?

Wheeler
 
Not claiming any more experiance than this man, just trying to help find a low-recoil weapon with good stopping power.

On the other hand, the .410 may have been a good thing, if it was easier for him to hit with it. However, it still looks like it failed to stop the man.
 
However, it still looks like it failed to stop the man.


What do you mean? The point of using a firearm against an intruder is to stop the threat. The intruder fled the seen due to the old man having a gun and using it. In effect the intruder was stopped and just because he wasn't killed doesn't mean the .410 didn't do its job.
 
The .410 was a good choice to use. That revolver he might have had to empty it out to get a hit. The .410 did what it needed to do. Gave a good pattern enough to make sure that intruder will never come back. Same time sure they were hit. Just maybe not anywhere vital. Good story for sure thanks for posting
 
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