WWII surplus rifle ???'s

[Ivy Mike]

I tore down my Mosin-Nagant M44 this morning and have been admiring the rifle a bit. I love the stupid simplicity of the trigger mechanism and how easy it is to improve upon it. I was pretty annoyed at the ammount of play in trigger when I bought the rifle, but didn't realize it was so easy to fix. A few washers and a bit of epoxy have firmed things up.

My questions are how many of you have bothered to try to improve such an inexpensive rifle? The utter simplicity of the design just invites fiddling with it and the results are easy to appreciate. I know I'm "modifying" a surplus rifle, but only to improve on some basic charateristics.
Does anybody have any advice on other things that can be done to smooth out the trigger or at least improve on it?

My final question has nothing to do with a Mosin-Nagant. For this one, we are going to switch from Allies to Axis and talk about an Arisaka rifle.
My grandfather brought two Arisaka's home from Japan. One is a type 44 (I think) and the other is chambered in 7.7mm (don't remember the type) At any rate, the 7.7mm is a full length rifle and still has the mum intact.
My grandfather got a little second-hand evidence that it was unsafe to shoot.
I'd really like to put a few rounds through it, but don't want it exploding in my face. Skin heals, but mum-intact rifles are getting rare

Is there anyway an average joe like myself can tell if the rifle is OK to fire? A way to check numbers perhaps? I don't have any gun-specific tools other than cleaning stuff.
Should I take it to a smith before firing? The fit and finish on the rifle is pretty rough, but seems solid. I can't really tell what quality the steel is though. Rifle seems like a late-war model.

Any ideas, questions, comments. These aren't my only military rifles either.
The list also includes a
beautiful 03A3
Yugo Mauser (M98)
The 6.5mm Arisaka I mentioned
Springfield Armory Model 1899 Carbine (30-40 Krag)

 

[Cosmoline]

On the Mosins, I've played around at sprucing them up and accurizing them. But frankly it's less trouble to just get a Finnish Mosin. They already did the hard work, including putting on new barrels and much better fitting stocks. Mosin triggers are never all that great, though I've shot some M-39's with good ones. Frankly I kind of like the big sloppy triggers. It's part of the Mosin charm.

If your Arisaka really is a 7.7 it's a Model 99, not a Model 38. But it's a good idea to have a gunsmith do a little cast and make sure. It's easy, not too expensive ($50 or so) and it's the only way to be sure short of seeing what you can jam in there. Plenty of these were rechambered to US cartridges with no markings made on the barrel.

A big warning here. Some Type 99's made very late in the war are called "last ditch" rifles and ARE VERY UNSAFE TO SHOOT!!! They may well grenade on you. You should have your gunsmith check into this as well. Rough finishing is one of the signs, but it's not dispositive. Some were even made from cast iron parts. However these are pretty rare and the bulk of the Type 99's are as strong or stronger than a K-98 Mauser.

If your rifle has good machining, a monopod, aircraft sights and so-on, chances are it's not last ditch. If it has rough machining marks, cast iron parts, crude or unfinished bolts, nailed-on furniture, and an otherwise crude appearance it may be a T-99 last-ditch rifle. The SN's aren't all that much help here without a collector's guide to the Arisaka at hand. The Japanese used a complex method of SN's that IIRC never went beyond a certain point, but just rotated back to the start. Different factories had different codes, but a low SN does not nec. mean early production. I believe that "For Collectors" series of books has one on the Arisaka with the full story on the last ditch rifles and the SN codes. This would be the only way of telling for sure when it was made, by looking at both the factory symbol and the number then cross-referencing the chart.

In any case, don't alter the rifle. If it's last ditch you don't want to shoot it and if it's not an intact mum on a Type 99 is quite hard to find and worth some real money, esp. if it has an intact monopod and aircraft sight.

 

[SMLE]

"Last Ditch" Arisakas...

I have read that the issue with the "last ditch" rifles comes from a misunderstanding. Appearantly, the japs made some drill purpose only rifles out of soft, cheap material. These were never intended to be fired. The rifles that were intended for actual use, are crude, but strong. Guys who didn't know how to read the markings got jacked up when they fired live ammo out of hte drill rifles.

I will try to get some more info from a friend who used to collect jap weapons.

 

[Chipperman]

hmmm.... Interesting
I've never heard that story.
Please post any other info you can find about that.

 

[jefnvk]

Take it to a smith. If you prefer the do-it-yourself way, tie a long piece of string to the trigger. I prefer to go on the gunsmith's word to not shoot mine, however.

 

[Ivy Mike]

I'm gonna go ahead and take it to a smith. The rifle is pretty rough, has no monopod, just a peep sight and the machining looks crappy. Don't think I have any cast iron parts and the wood isn't nailed together.

Hopefully its just that, crappy machining, but I get the feeling I'm gonna get a no-go from a smith.

Sucks as I really like the fact that all my rifles are in working order (except maybe this one)