badbadtz560
Member
We all know about the 1984 trials where Berettas won the contracts b/c sigs were too expensive. My question is.. what pistols were trialed and failed? where can I get this data?
xm9 trials... who failed?
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badbadtz560
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ah nevermind.. google search found it finally:
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=216558
op.. plz delete?
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=216558
op.. plz delete?
i dont even understand why we have handguns, they arent good for anything in modern combat except suicide; if someone has to have something very light, portable, and compact why not a submachine gun just as useless but hey its full auto and holds twice the ammo
Pulse
Member
reading how those "tests" where done, left me scratching my head.
If you were under siege, and in a house in Iraq and your main gun failed wouldn't be nice to have atleast something that shot a bullet? You could atleast guard an entrance into the house/building. Small PDW's are a tad too much for a soldier with kit. A pistol fits the ticket IMO.
Until you've confronted the choice of working with a slung weapon trying to fall off of your shoulder or hula hooping around your torso or of stacking it where it may be out of reach when most needed, you won't understand the handgun's military utility. In theaters of operation which no longer have "fronts" or "rear areas" the handgun makes more sense than ever for service folk who need to frequently not be burdened with a slung weapon.
The military explored "retiring" the handgun in a couple of very serious efforts, one of which resulted in the M1 carbine, the original PDW. Needless to say, the sidearm soldiers on.
Even if the infantry services one day ditch the pistol, the flying arms of those services will not. Additionally, I never see the Navy ditching the handgun as it is just way too useful for searching unfamiliar vessels. Back in the day, I early on humped a Remington 870 aboard vessels to be searched. After a few of those trips, the Weapons Officer issued most of the boarding party 1911A1s instead. It is much easier to climb a ladder or a cargo net with a flap holstered pistol than with a slung shotgun or rifle. It also makes being "ready to go" while opening hatches or watertight doors a great deal easier. Also, there are no closer quarters than below decks on a ship. Ranged and suppressive fire don't really exist as needs in the bowels of a ship and if it is, a shotgun handles the role well.
Besides, in many cultures, the pistol is more intimidating than the long gun or even an SMG. In some places in the world, "assault weapons" are part of the daily backdrop, usually seen on the cops or military police or what have you. However, when a pistol is produced, it signifies in some countries that someone is about to be eliminated.
The military explored "retiring" the handgun in a couple of very serious efforts, one of which resulted in the M1 carbine, the original PDW. Needless to say, the sidearm soldiers on.
Even if the infantry services one day ditch the pistol, the flying arms of those services will not. Additionally, I never see the Navy ditching the handgun as it is just way too useful for searching unfamiliar vessels. Back in the day, I early on humped a Remington 870 aboard vessels to be searched. After a few of those trips, the Weapons Officer issued most of the boarding party 1911A1s instead. It is much easier to climb a ladder or a cargo net with a flap holstered pistol than with a slung shotgun or rifle. It also makes being "ready to go" while opening hatches or watertight doors a great deal easier. Also, there are no closer quarters than below decks on a ship. Ranged and suppressive fire don't really exist as needs in the bowels of a ship and if it is, a shotgun handles the role well.
Besides, in many cultures, the pistol is more intimidating than the long gun or even an SMG. In some places in the world, "assault weapons" are part of the daily backdrop, usually seen on the cops or military police or what have you. However, when a pistol is produced, it signifies in some countries that someone is about to be eliminated.
You clearly have never spent any time in a combat zone and obviously have never seen the inside of a large ocean going vessel that may need to be boarded and searched and you obviously have never seen the inside of the cockpit of any fighter jet or helicopter.
The handgun, like it or not, fills many a necessary role in the modern military. There isn't a fighter pilot in the world that could carry even a small sub machine gun anyhwere in the cockpit of their plane, not with all their other gear. Let's not forget that if said pilot has to eject from a crashing aircraft all he will have to survive is what can be carried on his flight gear, and that damn sure does not have space for anything other than a handgun and a couple spare mags. And helos aren't much different. Yes a helo pilot can carry a rifle stashed in the crew compartment but I guarantee there isn't a one of them that flies without thier sidearm.
Not to mention the close quarters, sound supressed fire and back up capabilities required by the smaller more specialized units, SEALS, Force Recon, etc, etc.
Amazing
I was amazed that no one mentioned MILITARY POLICE. They are large users of handguns for same reason as civilian police. You need to have it with you or it is worthless.
Also, experience with teams going through doors has shown that long guns are frequently shouldered or put down when opening doors or going through hatchways.
A retired Colonel I know put it this way. If they are close enough to hit them with a rifle, the enemy is too close. He always preferred machine guns, cannons and missles.
Why fight fair?
Jim
I was amazed that no one mentioned MILITARY POLICE. They are large users of handguns for same reason as civilian police. You need to have it with you or it is worthless.
Also, experience with teams going through doors has shown that long guns are frequently shouldered or put down when opening doors or going through hatchways.
A retired Colonel I know put it this way. If they are close enough to hit them with a rifle, the enemy is too close. He always preferred machine guns, cannons and missles.
Why fight fair?
Jim
BMW2
Member
Cuz I can't find an IWB holster for an AR
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