Y'all's experience with IMR 4895 military pull down powder.

[Bexar]

Hotter/milder than current production IMR4895. Loading it in 30-06 Garand fodder. Bought 8# from a reliable source about ten years back (GiBrass). Any reports or suggestions on loading this powder behind 150gr-168gr bullets?

What about running it in a .308 bolt gun or a 5.56 AR15 16 inch barrel?

Thanks

Forgive me I've looked but can't find a thread referencing this here.

 

[carbine85]

I don't know what the "pull down powder" is but I use IMR4895 in just about every military or mil type rifle I own. I think it's as good or better then any other powder out there. I'm currently reloading with it for the Mosin Nagant and getting some pretty good results.
To the best of knowledge the IMR4895 is the same as the original. The H4895 is slightly different.

 

[USSR]

I have had 3 different lots of surplus IMR4895 powder (down to 2 now). I have found only a 0.5gr difference in required charge weight to attain the same velocity between the fastest and slowest lot. In .30-06 for my Garands, I use 47.5gr for 147 - 155gr bullets, 47.0gr for 168gr bullets, and 46.5gr for 174gr bullets (basically duplicates 1965 M72 Match ammo). In my .308 bolt gun, I use 41.5 - 42.0gr with 168 - 170gr bullets in 7.62x51 brass. Brass used in .30-06 doesn't matter, as there is not the large difference in case capacity as with .308/7.62x51. Don't shoot the mouse gun, so can't help you there.

Don

 

[Lj1941]

IMR4895 Pulldown.

I bought 8 lbs of surplus IMR 4895 from Wideners about 10 or so years ago. I have loaded 30/06 & 7MM08 from the jug using the same loads as a lb of commerical IMR4895 that I previously had. It was a mistake to buy so much because in my lifetime I will never use it up.My fear is that since it is pull-down powder that I really don't know how old it is,it may start to go bad. I am storing it in a cool and dry area but in the back of my mind,I know it may go bad.My wife can always use it to fertilize her garden.:banghead:

 

[Bexar]

Thanks for the comments and load suggestions. So summarizing...no issues.

 

[jaguarxk120]

Lj1941 chances are you will be long gone before the IMR powder go's bad. Keep shooting the stuff, you may use it up.

 

[USSR]

...My fear is that since it is pull-down powder that I really don't know how old it is,it may start to go bad.

I've got surplus IMR4895 that I bought 30 years ago and it's still good, so I wouldn't worry about it.

I am storing it in a cool and dry area...

That's the key.

Don

 

[Slamfire]

Half of all the surplus IMR4895 I bought went bad, maybe I am up to 3/4. For the money I spent on the stuff, just to end up loosing 700 match cases due to case neck cracks, and pouring most of the powder out, I would have been better off buying new. You should load and shoot it up as it was discarded because it was at the end of its lifetime.

You really have to go out and test the stuff as the burn rate is not the same as the over the counterstuff. That being said, I am still working on the absolute last lot of surplus 4895 I am ever going to buy, the stuff shoots exceptionally well in 308. IMR 4895 shoots exceptionally well in the 223, 308, 30-06, and so will surplus 4895.

Just don't expect it to last forever, your powder was probably 40 years old when it was demilled from military inventory. One lot I bought from Pat's, I started having occasional sticky extraction and "funny" retorts. Then case necks started splitting on fired ammunition and then case necks started cracking in the box.

I found that old powder will pressure spikes and the case neck cracking was due to NOx coming out of the powder. Old, old powder will autocombust:


http://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=6&f=3&t=248538

I run a long range shooting club here in NM. Yesterday a member approached me with a question about a powder he is using. He said " it's fuming" ........What?
I walked down and sure enough the powder was outgassing a very heavy oder of ammonia and Nitric Acid fumes. The powder was slowly turning sticky and had,from over night, corroded the brass cases and the projectiles.
This powder is milsurp pull down IMR-5010 powder that was sold in bulk from the long gone Talon company. Weidners and Pats reloading sells this powder in black plastic 8 pound jugs. There are no lot numbers or dates on the label.
I have been reloading since 1964 and have never seen this happen before. As you know nitro-cellulose uses Nitric Acid to make the propellant. Some how the acid was not neutralized correctly. When the acid is not removed from the powder grains, the deterent coating will break down and uncontrolled burning will happen. The powder may detonate rather than burn
If any of you have any powder that was OK a few months ago you may want to check it again. This powder was normal just last winter. Now it is breaking down. It was stored in a cool room. It was not left in the sunlight.
Chris at Weiders has been notified.
This was purely a PULLDOWN powder issue. NOT a Virgin IMR-5010 issue. I know the guy this allegedly happened to (Paul A. of Albuquerque). I suggested he post the source, acquisition date, etc but to date he has not. He told me the powder was PULLDOWN IMR-5010 from www.wideners.com. Wideners allegedly told him they would not replace the powder as his storage of it was beyond their control. Also, he had no direct status with them as he obtained this particular jug from another guy that had bought it from wideners.

I personally know the guy this happened to and unless you see some sort of acrid fumes coming off your powder, I wouldn't worry about it. Paul is a real cheap skate. He was loading $2.00 Lehigh 800 grainers with surplus powder. Silly way to save $0.25.

http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?52892-Warning-surplus-IMR-5010-powder-users

1. 10-02-2009, 11:02 AM#6
Cincinnati Kid
Platinum Bullet Member
Join Date
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Location
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That IMR 5010 powder that came from Talon has caused several large fires here in Ohio, two of them locally to a friend of mine, and one large fire in Northern Ohio that I know of. Anyone who has any of that 5010 powder that came from Talon needs to dispose of it if it shows any signs of breaking down. I wouldn't trust any of it.

 

[Chickm1]

I bought several jugs of off spec 4895. The supplier told you up front that it had the same burning rate as 4064, which was great for me. It has performed exactly as IMR 4064. Keep the powder in the house in air conditioning, and it will last a life time. Leave it in the garage, where the temperature spikes above 88 deg, or drops below 42 deg, and the life will only last a few years.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I also think you should use it ASAP. You have no way of knowing how old it was before the ammo was broken down to sell off the components. You also have no way of knowing how it was stored before you bought it.

I agree with SlamFire1, you have to test the lot of 4895 you have. Unless someone here has the same exact lot of powder you have there is no way anyone can help you.

 

[Laphroaig]

I shot 2 8# jugs of pulldown 4895 in the late 90's when it was available to me. It was great stuff and I never changed any of my recipes from commercial, and never noticed a difference. I'd buy it again if I had a chance, especially as the price was $58/8 #.

Of course you have to trust the source as many previous posters have alluded to as powder can go bad. As an example, the CMP is selling 1976 HXP 30-06 ammo that is totally safe and great stuff considering military surplus ammo. Its 39 years old and as good as the day it was made.

Laphroaig