YAST (Yet Another Starting Thread)...

[RFMan]

I shoot a lot of centerfire and rimfire rifle and pistol, and some shotgun, in regular smokeless cartridges. But I recently came into some black powder firearms, and I need help... I have scoured this forum and others, and have gathered some info, such as "starter kits are generally junk," and "you will eventually end up with other stuff." Some places people give a generic list of items. The trouble for me is, lack of specific recommendations.

What I have - and these came with no accessories, and no manuals (I managed to find the manufacturers' manuals online):

• Traditions Trapper percussion pistol, 50 cal
• Investarms Model 160 muzzleloader, sidelock, 50 cal
• Knight DISC inline, 50 cal

Please bear with me, as I am still getting a grip on the terminology of the various action types.

The pistol will only be a range firearm, but supposedly a lot of fun (It has double set triggers.) From what I can gather: 0.490 balls and 0.015 patches and 3F powder, and - what - #11 primers? Is it realistic to use, at least initially, one powder for all three firearms, or is it much better to use 3F in the pistol and 2F in the rifles - OK, I can go with that, but it would really help to know one or two brands to try and stick to at first.

I may eventually hunt with the rifles, but I will start on the range to get the hang of things first. And, I KNOW I need to try a bunch of powders and projectiles and primers...but I really would like to minimize the up-front number of items and maximize the probability of success, given that I'm not made of money, OR time...

I think the Knight should use 209 shotshell primers (depends on the powder?) and 2F powder. What primers for the Investarms? 2F powder also?

I'm sort of thinking to stay with balls even for the rifles to start with, to get familiarity. Then to conicals for hunting...

Finally, for the tools/accessories. I really need specific manufacturer and model number of recommended starter, range rod, powder measure, etc, etc as opposed to the generic lists I find on most sites. Without those specifics, those lists might as well be "get a starter kit," but with all the recommendations to get the "right stuff" to start with...I'm lost without specifics.

I appreciate all the help I know I will get, and I'm sure more questions will surface.

 

[rodwha]

I have two .44/.45 cal pistols and a .50 cal rifle but don't want to concern myself with different granulations. 3F works well for both. 2F can also work well with both. The difference is 3F is a faster burning powder which gives a higher velocity and slightly cleaner burn. Some guns may just do better with 2F, but you won't know until you try. Were it me I'd begin with 3F.

For the pistol I've often seen that a thinner patch (~0.010-0.012" seems best). I don't have one yet.

That would be a #11 cap. You may do well with a #10 cap as well. My pistols are finicky, my rifle is not. You may also be able to buy a nipple that uses 209 primers instead or musket caps if you preferred.

Your brand of powder depends on what you expect. You can certainly use that pistol for hunting if you wished, but I'd opt (and do) for a more energetic powder (Swiss, Olde Eynsford, Triple 7). Olde E is very reasonable.

A ball works quite well on deer/hogs and such (assuming .50 cal) out to 100-125 yds and more if you are able. It's what I intend on with my Lyman's Deerstalker with a 24" barrel.

 

[J-Bar]

I understand your concern about "doing things right." Take a deep breath...black powder is very forgiving. I doubt you will perceive any difference between 2F and 3F without a chronograph.

Any cap that ignites on the nipple will work. Real black powder has a lower ignition point than most substitutes, so If you start with a brand of real black powder you will be less likely to have misfires. Buy a tin of #11 caps. Test them in the garage (wear ear protection) by putting a dozen on the nipple and see if they all fire off. If so, you are golden. If #11's don't ignite reliably, try a different size. Then clean out the nipple and flash hole and barrel before loading your first charge.

I have never owned an in-line rifle, but I suspect you are correct in using a 209 shotshell primer for it. I would download the manufacturer's manual and read it.

You can judge the thickness of patch material you need by the amount of effort required to seat the ball. Remember to lube each patch. The ball should seat down on the powder charge with a bit of resistance, but you should not have to grunt or pound the ramrod to get it seated. Use thinner material if you have to work to seat the ball. This is for fun, not work.

Go shooting and get your hands dirty. As long as you get the ball seated all the way down on the powder and keep the muzzle pointed downrange, you aren't going to make any mistakes. It's a fast learning curve.

 

[RFMan]

Keep it coming. I'm homing in on powder, primers, patches, lube, and balls.

Looking for recommendations for these following items. I put some links there - are those OK?

powder flask - This one looks OK: http://www.midwayusa.com/product/194524/traditions-deluxe-tubular-powder-flask-brass?cm_vc=ProductFinding I read where one person uses an old washed-out mustard container, washed out with soapy water to reduce static. I'm very tempted to go that route, unless there is a good reason not to

powder measure - http://www.midwayusa.com/product/431413/cva-adjustable-black-powder-measure-with-swivel-funnel-10-to-120-grains-brass?cm_vc=wishList

short starter - http://www.midwayusa.com/product/314185/thompson-center-standard-bullet-starter-rifle-45-58-caliber-hardwood?cm_vc=wishList

range rod - should this be one-piece? I see this kit - is it any good? http://www.midwayusa.com/product/592519/traditions-deluxe-ramrod-set-50-caliber-brass?cm_vc=ProductFinding

nipple wrench - Is this one OK, or are there ones people like better? http://www.midwayusa.com/product/224310/lyman-black-powder-rifle-nipple-wrench-for-11-percussion-caps?cm_vc=ProductFinding

ball puller - should I even worry about that for now?

Am I missing anything that I really need?

 

[rodwha]

Here are a few places to look:

http://www.trackofthewolf.com

http://dixiegunworks.com

http://www.grafs.com

http://possibleshop.com

A ball puller is a good idea. If you get one stuck or forgot powder but have been shooting you'll need to be able to thoroughly clean it ASAP.

I recommend finding Ballistol too. This stuff works wonders as it's an oil that will mix with water. When the water evaporates it will leave behind a coating of oil.

However it is not a great long term oil. I go back over my guns if I haven't used them in about 3-4 months.

 

[rodwha]

For patch lube you can use about any type of cooking oil. SWMBO has only allowed me to use grape seed oil as it's inexpensive. You should have seen the look on her face when she caught me looking at the olive oil!

Maybe it's why my rifle doesn't do nearly as well as a REAL conical...

Ballistol can be mixed with water to create what's known as Moose Milk for patch lube as well. I've been meaning to try it.

 

[J-Bar]

I like all your links except the nipple wrench.

This one is more expensive, but worth it I think:

http://www.tdcmfgstore.com/agora.cgi?cart_id=77717022.29116&p_id=E-RATCHET&xm=on&ppinc=search2

 

[RFMan]

I like all your links except the nipple wrench.

This one is more expensive, but worth it I think:

http://www.tdcmfgstore.com/agora.cgi?cart_id=77717022.29116&p_id=E-RATCHET&xm=on&ppinc=search2

OK, it does look more rugged.

How about that multipiece brass rod? Is that OK compared to a one-piece?

 

[J-Bar]

OK, it does look more rugged.

How about that multipiece brass rod? Is that OK compared to a one-piece?

I use one-piece rods at home and at the range, but I don't think it's that big a deal. I prefer the fiberglass ramrod for my rifle rather than the wooden one that came from the factory.

 

[Noz]

Listen to J-Bar. He may be clumsy but he knows whereof he speaks.

 

[Dmitri Popov]

If you are going to be shooting round ball (as you should be starting out) get some pillow ticking (.010-.015) to use as a patch, take that material and rip it into strips the same width as your barrel. Now comes the complicated part, your going to have to make your own patch lube. The ingredients are very difficult to find, and insanely expensive. The first ingredient is...spit. Ok that completes your ingredient list. Yep patch lube for round ball really is that simple. I can shoot all day long, without ever wiping my barrel between shots. All I do is suck on the first inch or so of the patch while im loading, place the strip on my muzzle, push a ball to where it'll hold the patch in place, use my expensive, technically superior short starter (its a nut-driver for those replaceable screw driver bits) to seat the ball flush with the muzzle, take a patch knife (literally any knife with which you can cut a patch) and cut the pillow ticking flush with the muzzle. Then just drive'er home. Shooting muzzleloaders can be as expensive/complicated as you want to make it. I shoot the same way for my "hawken" as I do my in-line. I like round ball, Goex Cartridge powder, and primers that are >25 years old. I shoot just as well as the average joe next to me with 3 times more invested in his shooting setup for one gun, as I have invested in ALL my Black Powder stuff. Less money spent on gear that doesn't improve on what I already got, the more money for Powder!

Oh and you often hear of some secret solution for cleaning Black Powder fouling at the end of the day. The ABSOLUTE best thing going is plain jane, no additives, WATER. Don't use Peroxide, Ammonia, these high dollar commercial brands, use Water. What the heck do people think they used for X number of hundreds of years?

 

[RFMan]

Well, I do have a large supply of spit

I do intend to make it as simple as I can.

Thanks all, and keep 'em coming!