Yellowish Particulate in Guns after shooting Federal Frangible "American Eagle" and LEO "RHT" in 9mm, .380 ACP & .45 ACP

[JoeTester]

In my firearms where I have shot Federal Frangible "American Eagle" 380 ACP, 9mm, 45 and ACP - and also in Federal "Reduced Hazard Training" Frangible .45 ACP, I ALWAYS end up with yellowish particulate in my guns' chambers and barrels. With the 9mm and 45 ACP this in in both in my hand guns and my PCC in both calibers. 380 is just in hand guns

My FMJ and various HP's in Federal ammo doesn't leave this residue AT ALL. Although I do think my Syntech Defense ammo has left this residue also, but I don't shoot that enough at the range to remember.

What is it about these rounds that leaves yellow particles? Is it Quasi-burnt powder, or could it be an extra component in the powder?

Here is some of the ammo I have left, I bought it hoping it wouldn't have the same particles that the "American Eagle" had... but it did:

This is the main frangible ammo I purchase from Federal, that I have none left of, that left the "sand":


I didn't have any pictures from my guns, but other people have had this with various ammo, most often rimfire though:




Just curious if anyone knew 100% what this "sand" is?

 

[MEHavey]

Unburned gunpowder.
(Smokeless powder is actually a yellow compound until coated w/ graphite as part of burn-speed control.)

 

[Hartkopf]

I had a similar experience with Remington Golden Saber in 40S&W a few years ago.

It seems inefficient to me. If the powder was burned completely, less powder could be used to generate the same velocity.

 

[chicharrones]

I’ve only personally seen yellow grains after firing .22 WMR in my Ruger Single Sixes. I can’t recall what make and type of ammo, though.

 

[Riomouse911]

I’ve only personally seen yellow grains after firing .22 WMR in my Ruger Single Sixes. I can’t recall what make and type of ammo, though.

I get that with Aguila in .22LR and WMR. (Aguila rimfire has a funky smell, too.)

Stay safe.

 

[someguy2800]

That is partially burned powder. Nothing to worry about.

 

[C-grunt]

It's probably slight amounts of the frangible material that came off the bullet when fired. We use frangible ammo in our indoor range at work and the floor gets covered in the yellow powder from the rounds turning to dust against the steel backstop. You can see it in this video when I start walking towards the target.

20200915_140054 by chase, on Flickr

 

[LocoGringo]

I had the same experience from American Eagle 147 grain 9mm. I was curious myself what the stuff was...it made a mess.

 

[12Bravo20]

Yup unburned/partially burned powder.

 

[EMC45]

It’s notorious in “green” NHT ammo. Our agency is required to shoot lead free ammo for quals and the guns look like someone dumped cornmeal all over them when they get done. IT GETS EVERYWHERE.

 

[herrwalther]

As noted, it is unburnt powder. Most recently I had the same issue shooting Golden Saber 9mm NATO rounds in my PPS. But not any of my other firearms. It won't harm anything. It is just annoying to clean out. Changed ammo to another brand and the problem vanished.

 

[JoeTester]

Thank you all for excellent information. I actually a study on sci-hub about the subject... Federal's Ballisticlean was the only one that formed these "particles" and "globules" as it puts it, in the ammo I have tried.

I bought Speer Lawman RHT to compare with the Federal Law Enforcement RHT with the same Sinterfire bullets, but different "clean" primers and powder formulations. It is mentioned in the study, and per my testing, that the Speer/CCI primers/ammo form far less mm-sized particles as a bi-productnof "pyrolysis" (heat-induced chemical reaction). Indeed the Federal has a whole range different particles of different and makeup that form after burning, while the Speer seems to have just one type.

EDIT:
They both formed particles, I didn't check the right gun with the right ammo, and was cleaning them now. And the Speer also form large particles in the study. So I went back and looked at the primers and noticed something.... I FOUND OUT WHY THEY BOTH HAVE THEM:

Federal's "Ballisticlean" no longer uses their own formulated primers as they did in 2006 at the time of this study. BOTH the Federal and Speer have primers with "CF", FOR "CleanFire" imprinted on the primer face - you can kind-of make out the "CF" imprint here:


The Two Ammo Compared (Turns out they are identical)




Study Reads about The "Federal Ballisticlean"

From Study:

Lead-free primer residues: a qualitative characterization of Winchester WinClean, Remington/UMC LeadLess, Federal BallistiClean, and Speer Lawman CleanFire handgun ammunition​

Zachariah Oommen et al. J Forensic Sci. 2006 May.

Federal BallistiClean TM

Direct examination of primer-only pyrolysis revealed Ba, Si, and Al as principle ingredients. Figure 5 represents several spectra overlayed for comparison.
The vast majority of the particles recovered from the hands were of a ‘‘pocked,’’ spherical morphology varying in size from 4–10 mm. Figure 6 characterizes typical particle morphology with accompanying spectra. These were usually composed of Al, Si, Ba, and K with traces of Na, regardless of size. Na did not generally appear in sufficient quantity to register definitively until particle size reached 6 mm. Nonspherical, irregular but smooth particles were detected frequently. They appeared as ovular or spheroid in overall shape with rounded angular facets and heavily pocked surfaces. These were predominantly in the 15–40 mm range. Composition of l these was unchanged from above. Downrange samples varied considerably more in size and shape, but did not change in characteristic Al, Si, Ba, K composition. This composition was also observed as larger ‘‘piled’’ or ‘‘globular’’ particles in the 20–40 mm range. ‘‘Pocked,’’ irregular or ‘‘globular’’
particles containing Al/Si and Ba in some ratio from 10–35 mm were common. Spherical Cu plus tin (Sn) particles from 1–6 mm were observed.

Speer Lawman CleanFire TM

Direct examination of primer-only pyrolysis indicated strontium (Sr) and oxygen as the principle ingredients. Figure 7 represents characteristic spectra overlayed for comparison. Sr-containing spheroids in the 3–20 mm range were recovered consistently from shooter’s hands after live fire. Figure 8 is a collection of particles typical of those recovered from the shooter’s hands and from downrange. These take the form of spheres with fissured or ‘‘crackled’’ surfaces. The Sr is often accompanied by
Al/Si and chlorine. This is consistent with previous work with CCI lead-free ammunition (9). CCI and Speer are owned by the same company, Alliant Techsystems (ATK). Downrange samples evidenced the same tendency toward spherical shape, but larger

 

[MarshallDodge]

Years ago, Winchester had a powder called Action Pistol, and it would do the same thing.

I was told it was a flash retardant but never tested it to be sure. It left yellow particles inside the gun.

I've heard that Ramshot Silhouette is the same powder but without the flash retardent.

 

[JoeTester]

So it turns out, as the study indicates, that it is the lead-free PRIMERS that are forming the particles (see my previous reply two posts up). I had checked the wrong gun earlier before I edited that reply, and it turns out that of the three "Lead Free" rounds tested, only my Sinterfire 1776 Lead Free were free of any yellow-particles / "sand".

Guess Why? Only the Sinterfire doesn't use lead-free primers, and specifically not the same "CleanFire" lead-free primers used by Speer AND Federal (which Federal apparently licensed so they could use their Trademarked "Ballisticlean" labelling. But the "CF" primer-imprint on both was the dead give away they use CCI's/SPEER's "CleanFire" primers) - the Sinterfire box says the primers are the "main source of lead" in their ammo,, and they are brass colored primers woth no "CF" imprint... clearly this is why they have no "sand":



These left no residue. I had mixed them up with the Speer at first when cleaning/checking my guns for the "sand". But indeed, it's the "CF" primers that are the culprit for the yellow particles.