Yep. I used the wrong shell holder when resizing

[Tempus Tom]

I have a few hundred .308 cases that I've picked up in the desert over the last couple years.

After purchasing a new Savage Axis II .308 rifle from Walmart, I picked out 50 Federal cases from my stash and full length resized them. However, I'm a total moron and grabbed the wrong shell holder. Ya know.....cause its hard to grab the shell holder in the Lee box sitting next to the die.

Due to my stupidity, the shoulders were brought back too far. When I compare to a new, unfired Federal .308 loaded cartridge, my resized shoulders are as much as .010 shorter (some are less).

How short is too short? Is having a shoulder .005 shorter than brand new cartridges too short? How about .010? That seems like a big problem to me but I'm not a headspace expert. Usually, I just use the correct shell holder and all is well.

Is there a safe way to fire form these back or are they relegated to the recycling pile at this point? I'd imagine some trail boss could potentially offer a low pressure means of reforming the brass? While I don't have any trail boss, I'm a patient person and can wait until this shortage ends if that's what it takes to safely reform them.

I hate wasting components, but I also don't like injuring myself, my children or damaging my firearms.

Any help is appreciated.

Thank you.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

I think you can fire-form them safely. I don't think I would try to load and shoot them with a full hunting load with the neck & shoulder set back that far. I think it might be okay with a light load and lead projectile, though. Maybe load up some 150gr. LFN/LRN over 13gr. of Red Dot and have fun popping cans at 100 yards. That will fire-form your cases without "wasting" components.

 

[Walkalong]

The shell holder height should have been just fine, as the standard is .125, so shoulder position should have been fine.

I don’t understand what you mean by the necks being brought back to far. Are you saying the overall length of the case is too short by .010? If so, that’s not a big deal and had nothing to do with the shell holder.

What shell holder did you use?

 

[edwardware]

1) Full length sizing changes shoulder position. Trimming shortens necks. It sounds like you moved the shoulders back, not the necks. Nomenclature matters.

2) Are you measuring shoulder position with an appropriate gauge that rests on the shoulder, and a caliper? I ask because I'm surprised you own a FL die so badly out of spec that it'll reach 0.010" shorter than factory ammo. That's unusual.

3) You can certainly save them, but it may not be worthwhile. False shoulders, or lubing and low-pressure forming work for lots of wildcats, but they are time consuming.

 

[entropy]

They'll fire-form, but you might get 1 or 2 less loading out of them.

 

[Tempus Tom]

I apologize. I wrote "neck" but meant shoulder.

It's 113 degrees in Vegas right now and I'm sweating bullets in my garage remeasuring all of my 308 cases and typing on my laptop.

I'm also measuring my shell holders and I agree with you Walkalong....they should not have effected how far back the neck was moved. They're exactly the same height.

When I noticed I had the #3 shell holder in the press, rather than the #2, I full length resized about 10 cases and compared them to other cases. The 50 cases that were sized with the #3 (incorrect) shell holder were (on average) about .005 inches shorter (from head to shoulder) than the 10 cases I sized with the proper shell holder. So I jumped to conclusions that the shell holders were different. They're not.

I think now that I probably had the sizing die not fully screwed in when I sized the 2nd set of cases and that is what accounts for the different lengths. (I can't think of anything else that would cause the difference).

 

[Tempus Tom]

This is what I'm referring to.....I zero-ed the calipers using a brass case that to the best of my knowledge was correctly full length resized and then compared it to the 50 cases I resized previously.

The 50 cases resized in the first session are slightly shorter (from head to shoulder) than the 10 cases I did later. I assumed it was the shell holder, but Walkalong busted that myth.

I also compared my shortest case to an unfired new Federal cartridge and it was .010 shorter (again from head to shoulder). I now wonder if I miss measured or happened to grab an abnormally long unfired cartridge. I'll check it again.

(UPDATE) This entire thread is embarrassing. I wish I didn't post anything and just remeasured all of my cases. So it turns out that now when I compare my shortest cases (again from head to shoulder), they are about .003 - .004 inches shorter than some unfired Federal cartridges. I don't know how I got .010 previously.

Always, thanks for the help. Now my nonsensical posts shall remain online for eternity. Super.

 

[PapaG]

Cast bullets, loaded out to jam into the rifling, moderate charge, and fire forming should work.

 

[Walkalong]

I don't know how I got

Well, most of us know that feeling, I know I do.

 

[Ranger99]

I'm unsure if you sized the whole batch
mistakenly or exactly what, but the
better procedure is to size one or two and
check everything before proceeding to
do half a hundred or more
JMHO- I've had my go round with other
people's discards. Too much wear and
tear on my valuable ( even more so these
days) equipment, and a waste of my
irreplaceable valuable time. Time spent
diddling with questionable brass doesn't
interest me as much as it once did

 

[greyling22]

should be fine. heck, for my 257 ackley, everybody just said fireform by loading a factory 257 roberts case in the chamber and shoot. works fine. And as you can see, the ackley doesn't look much like the roberts at all. (ackley on the right)

 

[FROGO207]

Dont be too hard on yourself there, we'll do that for you. The good thing is you figured it out and I bet you never make the same mistake again. I always learn the hard way as well. Welcome to the oops club.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

Dont be too hard on yourself there, we'll do that for you. The good thing is you figured it out and I bet you never make the same mistake again. I always learn the hard way as well. Welcome to the oops club.

It’s a big club

 

[Tempus Tom]

the
better procedure is to size one or two and
check everything before proceeding to
do half a hundred or more

Excellent advice. That’s how I’m going to work moving forward.

Thanks all for the help.

 

[25-20 WCF]

should be fine. heck, for my 257 ackley, everybody just said fireform by loading a factory 257 roberts case in the chamber and shoot. works fine…..

That does not apply to the OP.. A correctly-chambered Ackley will headspace on the neck/shoulder juncture, not on the full shoulder like other rimless bottlenecked cartridges. Your Ackley has no headspace problems because it was designed not to have them.

A reduced load may not fully fire form the short cases. Other than tossing them, the best solution is to seat bullets out to jam into the rifling. Don’t use a max load for this, but a starting load may not generate enough pressure to fire form military brass.



.

 

[Riomouse911]

It’s a fixable issue... and one you noticed early .

I will say that when I first saw the post I thought you had stuck a case into the sizing die because the wrong shell holder was too large to grip the rim. THAT would stink!

Stay safe.