"Yer reloading your gun wrong!" the guy at the range said...

[StrikeFire83]

Okay. So I'm sure many of us, especially us younger fellas, have been the recipient of some unsolicited advice at the range from well meaning folks. I always try and listen, because I'm only 26 and realize I've got a lot to learn. Sometimes the advice is good, sometimes it is bad.

Today, it was bad.

An older gentleman who was shooting shotgun pattern groups at 7 yards with a very expensive looking 1911 yells "Yer reloading your gun wrong!" in my general direction between mags.

You see, I often reload my guns by thumbing the slide release. Sometimes I'll slingshot the gun, but all my guns have a slide release in the same place, and I've trained to do it that way, and reloading with the slide release eliminates the possibility of coaxing the slide forward and causing a malfunction.

So the guy walks over to me for a little chat, and tells me all about how reloading with the slide release is "bad fer the gun" and "you won't be able to do that in a high stress situation" and bla bla bla bla. I was polite and listened and nodded, and went back to shooting the way I do, with much better accuracy than him I might add.

Anyhow, did I do good? Or explain to me why I'm wrong.

 

[gun addict]

umm, nope, keep on doing what you're doing, ignore unnecesary advices however good of an intention the giver has

 

[Ragnar Danneskjold]

Well critiquing other people at the range is bad form in any case. And it certainly isn't "bad for the gun". At least no gun I know of. But there is some weight behind not being able to do it in high stress situations. Using the slide stop lever uses fine motor skills, which degrade a great deal when one is experience a high stress event. Slingshotting the slide on the other hand uses complex motor skills, which take more to degrade under stress. This is all due to the chemical and hormonal shock your body goes through under stress, as well as your heart beat. Normal resting heart rate for an adult male is 60-100bpm. When the heart rate exceeds around 130bpm, you lose most of your fine motor skils. When it exceeds about 150bpm, you generally lose the complex motor skills and are left with only gross motor skills. Slingshotting is the preferred method in law enforcement and military for this very reason. In high stress, such as a shooting, being able to operate your equipment while your heart is racing and you're adrenaline is pumping is very important. Using the slide stop lever isn't "wrong". But there is a higher chance that it will take you a bit longer or cause you to fumble when involved in a real shooting.

Take a look at martial artists. The ones who study martial arts for real combat, such as in Krav Maga and military combatives, tend to use moves that focus on body and arm movements. Showy exhibition martial arts that have tons of flips and intricate hand and finger movements are generally looked on as useless in a real fight. One can teach themselves to do anything when everything is fine and your heart is beating normally. Next time you're at an outdoor range, if you can do this, try to go for a quick 4-5 minute run. Not a jog, but a run. Get your heart rate up to the 160-180 range. Then try to shoot as soon as your stop before your heart starts slowing down. You'll be amazed at how the things you thought were easy before, become difficult when your heart is beating more than twice as fast as normal. Now that's not saying you won't be able to do them at all. But those extra half-seconds longer it takes to do some things might be all the bad guy needs when real bullets are coming your way.

 

[9mmepiphany]

being polite to older guys is very nice, because you're so understanding i'll just add a little hard won experience. it isn't a slide release, it's a slide catch...it's designed to catch the slide and lock it back when your magazine is empty.

i neither release my slide by using the slide catch (no it isn't bad for the gun...well it did damage several early Glocks because they didn't understand that Americans like to misuse the slide catch) or slingshot it.

i grab the rear portion of the slide overhand (thumb pointing toward my chest) and pull it back as i drive the gun forward. i would never insist that you do it this way, unless you were in a class and we were trying to make you a better shooter

 

[ProShooter]

The old guy was right.

The slide lock lever or slide stop lever is not meant to simply be released in that manner. The recoil spring is under tremendous pressure and when released, that energy often transfers to the slide lock lever in a negative manner, causing unnecessary wear and tear. I have seen someone release the slide in that manner and shear the lever right off.

The only proper way to chamber a semi-auto is by the slingshot technique, which is something that you should be practicing anyway so that you build the muscle memory needed for clearing malfunctions.

 

[Nuke8401]

Wow, I guess I’ve been doing it wrong forever (about 40 years). I guessing I have put over 20,000 rounds through my Glock 34 practicing and competing in IDPA matches. Maybe 5,000 rounds through my Para 1911, same for a SIG 226. Maybe 2,000 rounds through my S&W CS-45. None of these have shown any signs of wear, just lucky I guess.

I would gladly compete, under pressure, using fine motor skills, with thousands of repetitions under my belt, against anyone who does the slingshot thing.

Dave E.
SSP MA

 

[postmaster3000]

FWIW, I checked the owner's manuals for each of my handguns, and there is no consensus.

Sig's instructions for P220-P245 handguns, "Push down the slide catch lever with your thumb, or draw back the slide as far as it will go and allow it to snap forward into battery."

The manual for Glock 17 states, "Pull back the slide with the free hand, and allow it to spring forwards into the final position."

The Walther P99C manual instructs, "Push down on the slide stop. The slide will snap forward, loading the chamber as it closes."

Kimber's manual for full-size 1911 models states, "Without touching the trigger, push downward on the slide stop with your left-hand thumb or left index finger. Allow the slide to go forward unhindered."

TL;DR: Sig says you can do either. Glock says to pull back the slide. Walther and Kimber say to push down the slide catch.

 

[Old Fuff]

First of all, the OLD FUFF will insist that it's wrong to pick on older people...

Back in the BC era (before Cooper) when older folks were still young, men often carried automatic pistols with the magazine loaded and the chamber empty. With some platforms this was a good idea. So if you wanted to fire the first shot you had to slingshot the slide. It also gave the slide a bit more run-up to the magazine and additional momemtum to strip the round out of the magazine.

But on the other hand shooters have been using the slide stop to release the slide since the first pistols rolled off Colt's production line in 1911. If there was something truly wrong with this practice we'd know it by now.

I sometimes wonder what one of our combat game-gunners would do if they had to use a Colt 1903 .38 (Hammer) Pocket Model. It didn't have a safety lock (manual safety), grip safety or slide stop.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

The slide lock lever or slide stop lever is not meant to simply be released in that manner.

Well if that is true then they really messed up for decades by making the upper surface of the slide stop rough or checkered to allow a finger or thumb more friction when pressing it down and releasing the slide.

HA! Well I also proved the other side of the debate for the part is called a slide stop, not a slide-release. I think what some folks mean to say is that today, it is generally accepted that the slide stop is designed to allow a stock 1911A1 to release the slide on an empty magazine, not during a reload. However, I don't think J Browning ever pubished more than a label for the gun parts, so who knows what he was thinking at the turn of the 19th to the 20th century about how the gun would be reloaded? I know if you're on horseback holding the reins in your left hand you're not thumbing the slide-stop down, but how are you reloading at all if you are holding the reins (sorry, went a bit off the topic there)

You CAN harm your 1911A1 IF you simply drop the slide on an empty chamber/magazine, if you have had a light trigger pull created by a gunsmith who has modified the internal parts. Dropping the slide on a round that is stripped from the magazine by either method will not harm the handgun.

There are lots of factors involved with John Browning's design...,

For years it was taught that was the way to complete the reloading process on a gun run dry during a firing exercise or competition. larger, extended, easier to grab, slide stops are available even today. I have seen some dang-quick reloads where the same hand that loaded the fresh magazine also thumbed the extended slide-stop and the gun went into battery. OK fine.

Then I got a Glock, and the slide stop release latch will give you all sorts of trouble, as it's smaller than the 1911A1 part, and slicker, and Glock teaches that one should depend on gross motor skills alone in combat (especially since their heritage is Austrian Military, and thick, military, winter, shooting mits really mess with finger skills!) So one is taught to insert mag, rotate the reloading hand 180 degrees, grasp the slide and tug, to release it and allow it to go into battery without further contact.

So if you're Nuke8401 you're probably highly programmed after 40 years to drop the slide with the thumb of the reloading hand..., and if you changed the stock part to a bigger, narly slide stop, you'd probably have no worries with a 1911A1 or Para.

If you haven't programmed yourself as such, and if you might wear winter gloves of any sort, you might want to use the slide grip method with the gross motor skills. I had to change with the coming of the Glock as a stock sidearm for my LEO job, so I use the grasp-the-slide method with either my Para or Glock, to maintain a quick response under stress. No need to hesitate in an SD situation trying to remember which handgun and which method to use.

LD

 

[CoRoMo]

I don't use the slide stop to make the slide go.

But it looks awesome when they do it in the movies.

I use the overhand technique, as described by 9mmepiphany.

 

[MarineOne]

Use the KISS Principle .....

If it's working for you then it isn't broke, so don't try to fix it.




Kris

 

[The Bushmaster]

I use both methods. Depending on how I feel at the time. If I feel the need to be dramatic I'll use the slide STOP (9mmepiphany)...If I feel the need to be in a hurry I'll slingshot the slide. I have some pretty old guns that have never been "slingshot" and they still function as designed...

 

[Sam1911]

If you train to do it "slingshot" style, that's what you'll do in a panic situation -- with great success.

If you train to hit the slide stop to drop the slide, that's exactly what you'll do in a panic situation -- with equal success.

For a practiced shooter, the slide stop method is faster and reqires a lot less hand/arm motion to get back into a shooting stance, which is why the competition shooters adopt this style.

For an occasional shooter, the "gross motor skill" version may be easier to get into your hands. Just getting the gun running again is the goal.

As for damaging the gun -- some people will believe almost anything. Don't begrudge an old man his hang-ups. He's probably at his personal best doing it his way. You can take his advice or leave it, politely.

-Sam

 

[YaNi]

Don't don't change methods now. There is nothing wrong with the slide lock. You started by using the slide lock, so stick with it. It would take you awhile to ingrain the slingshot method, and there are no benefits of switching. The one major disadvantage of the slingshot method is if you unknowingly hold onto the slide as it goes forwards it may not go into battery. When you hit the magic button you know everything is GTG.

 

[Slamfire]

The slide lock lever or slide stop lever is not meant to simply be released in that manner. The recoil spring is under tremendous pressure and when released, that energy often transfers to the slide lock lever in a negative manner, causing unnecessary wear and tear. I have seen someone release the slide in that manner and shear the lever right off.

If you have seen this, then it happens.

Where did the lever break, at the slide lock end or the barrel pin location?

Now that I think of it, the slingshot may have the advantage that the pistol is pointing down range when you sling shot it. I am a right hander and when I push on the slide stop with my left hand, the pistol is pointing off axis left.

 

[jfdavis58]

You inquired about doing well or doing good. Being respectful and kind to others is always good regardless of age. Being patient in the face of aggressive corrective advice speaks highly of your mood that day and quite possibly of your overall character.

I carry an Officer variant 1911 so I prefer the method announced by 9mmepiphany in message #4. It's a method directly in-line with malfunction correction techniques shown by Clint Smith/Thunder Ranch---one can safely assume it has some proven validity (other than just the word of an internet junkie). I'm really big on letting people find their own way so that's the end of my advice.

 

[ProShooter]

If you have seen this, then it happens.

Where did the lever break, at the slide lock end or the barrel pin location?

Now that I think of it, the slingshot may have the advantage that the pistol is pointing down range when you sling shot it. I am a right hander and when I push on the slide stop with my left hand, the pistol is pointing off axis left.

The lever broke at the slide lock end, basically everything outside of the frame snapped off.

 

[ProShooter]

When you hit the magic button you know everything is GTG.

Not 100% though, every time. Using the slide lock to release the slide has a greater chance of causing a malfunction because the slide has not reached its full amount of rearward travel before coming forward.

Ask yourself this - if the motion needed to properly chamber a round could be achieved with the slide lock lever, why is there additional rearward travel? Why not have the slide lock notch at the furthermost rearward point and that be the end of it? Why does the slide go rearward past the locking point??

 

[Crusader103]

This is pretty much in line with what most are saying, but simply, it does not matter. I teach and present both methods and allow the shooter to develop their own style. There are a couple of points to make though.

If you are going to use the weak hand over the top of the slide to send it forward be careful if you are using a firearm with a slide mounted safety/decocker. I see it all the time...the shooter reaches over the top to release the slide and unknowingly decocks, or even worse, engages the safety. Hopefully you will catch your mistake quickly but it doesn't always work that way.

I hear the argument of fine/gross motor skills all the time. While there is definitely merit to the topic and I incorporate such into my teaching, I would argue that it doesn't hold much water here. If you don't have the "fine" motor skills necessary to manipulate the slide release (call it what you want, it serves multiple functions) than exactly how did you find and manipulate the even smaller round magazine release? For that matter, how did you obtain and insert the spare magazine into a magazine well the exact size of the magazine?

Utilizing the slide release will be faster than the over the top method in almost every circumstance. Your support hand does not have to make an over the top motion and return. Your support hand will be closer to resume your normal two hand hold if you simply manipulate the slide release with your shooting thumb or with your support hand for that matter. Further, if you are talking about one-handed shooting/reloads, you do not have to alter your method of operation.

You can probably figure out my personal method but there is nothing wrong with either. Practice both ways, pick the one that works for you, and continue to work on it until you don't even think about it.

By the way, if your handgun is damaged because you send the slide home on an empty chamber (due to custom work or weapon design) then either 1) your weapon is poorly made/designed so get another one or 2) you've had too much custom work done to your weapon.

If it's #1, get a new gun. Using the slide release does not even remotely hurt any firearm you should be trusting your life to. Too much stress, recoil springs, etc? Hogwash. Your weapon is going through a lot more stress in the normal firing cycle than when you send the slide forward manually.

If it's #2, keep in mind that no amount of customizing will compensate for a lack of skills. An out of the box handgun is more than adequate for defensive work, and that is what we are talking about here.

Be aware. Shoot accurately.

Joshua Scott
www.FrontSightFocus.org

 

[Claude Clay]

the slide stop, for those who can count rounds is useful when handling the unloaded gun

practice using it as a slide release enough to be able to do it in a 'situtation'
where you have shoot to slide lock and have another mag to reload.
that happens often, right?

 

[Shawn Dodson]

I operate the slide lock to engage it for unloading and for clearing a doublefeed only.

All other times I operate the slide using the overhand method. I never load my pistols with the slide locked open - the slide is always in battery when I seat a magazine except for a combat reload. The practice conditions me to the extra effort required to positively seat the magazine after clearing a doublefeed, or when performing a tactical reload.

I use nondiagnostic stoppage clearance techniques (tap, roll & rack as well as tap, roll & rack, slide lock, magazine drop, cycle, cycle, cycle, seat, roll & rack) and this method integrates well with all my manipulation techniques. No thinking required. Just do it.

 

[B yond]

If it works for you and you aren't endangering yourself or some innocent bystander(s) then do it however you want.

I can't count the number of times I've come to S&T with what I thought was a great idea for doing something a little differently than the norm only to be told I'm "wrong" and "that's not how the pros do it." Heck, a couple of THRers have even called me stupid for even suggesting that these things can be done differently.

Just think through what you're doing and be sure you're being safe.

It's nice of you to be polite to the guy at the range who wanted to give you unneeded advice. Quite frankly I'm so fed up with know-it-all chairborne commandos telling me the 'proper' way to do things that I'm not sure I could be so polite to a guy like that any more.

There's more than one way to skin a cat.

 

[NCPatrolAR]

Use of the slide release and the overhand method are both sound tactics. Use of the slide release is faster and the overhead method works with all firearms. I train on and teach both methods but default to using the slide release.

 

[buy guns]

From a design standpoint, the arguments for it being just a slide catch do not make any sense.

If it's just a catch, then you would never really need to operate it so why have a friction surface on it, why have it within reach of your shooting thumb, or why even make it external?

If it's not a release, then why lock the slide back? They could have just as easily put a clear indicator on the rear of the gun to show you when ammo runs out.

If the engineers thought it would harm the gun by using the slide release, then they would not have designed guns in a way that makes it intuitive to use the release when reloading the gun.

 

[mbt2001]

It's called the speed reload and it oft practiced. The speed reload is when you fire one mag until empty, drop the mag free and replace with a fresh mag, depress the slide lock readying the gun to fire again.

I do not care WHAT you are doing, there is someone out there who says it is "bad for the gun" / "tactically unsound" or whatever. Even SUPPOSING that it is true, then have those parts on hand to replace when trouble develops. Better yet, replace wear and tear parts every 20,000 rounds LIKE YOU SHOULD....



EDIT:

Use of the slide release and the overhand method are both sound tactics. Use of the slide release is faster and the overhead method works with all firearms. I train on and teach both methods but default to using the slide release.

I totally agree with this. Not all guns have a slide lock or lock open, but on guns that do, using the slide stop to reload in the above discussed manner is perfectly fine.