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You can pay an FFL to run a NICS w/o buying gun?

Discussion in 'Legal' started by newbie4help, Apr 20, 2008.

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  1. newbie4help

    newbie4help Member

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    I read on another thread that this is possible. Does anyone know if this is okay?
     
  2. Treo

    Treo member

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    I'm sure it would be , but what would be the point?
     
  3. newbie4help

    newbie4help Member

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    Because if you get denied (even if its because of machine error) you can be in legal jeopardy for attempting to buy a gun. Rather check first w/o purchasing.
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2008
  4. Lurp

    Lurp Member

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    Treo, I assume it would be for a FTF sale where the seller wanted to make sure the buyer wasn't a felon or such.
     
  5. larry_minn

    larry_minn Member

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    I used to have a toll free NICS number that was set up for NON-FFLs.

    Now the question. WHY?? do you think you might have a past incident that "might" disqualify you? Do you fear filling out a 4473 (the way you want) will cause you to go to jail? Was a judgement overturned/pardoned/set aside???
    If any of those you NEED to contact a lawyer and make dang sure. (if you are as cheap as me) you can contact ATF yourself. Thing is you NEED written/signed/dated documentation before you buy a gun if you have this kind of concerns.
     
  6. newbie4help

    newbie4help Member

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    Doesn't it take a while and you have to to a freedom of information act request?
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2008
  7. Treo

    Treo member

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    If you're that freaked out buy the gun FTF.

    P.S. My stepdaughters ex boyfriend was dumb enough to call the county courthouse to ask if they could check for warrants. they told him there was a five dollar fee & he had to be present for them to do the check ( I'm sure you can see this one coming) Of course he had warrants and he was arrested on the spot.
    I think the moral of the story is self explanitory.
     
  8. markk

    markk Member

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    I could be wrong but I don't think a NICS denial equals an automatic arrest for attempting to buy a firearm anyway, I'm pretty sure I've seen people get denied and say "OK, thanks..." and walk out.
     
  9. kingpin008

    kingpin008 Member

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    Right. Trying to buy a gun and being denied isn't against the law. Purposefully lying on the 4473 while trying to buy a gun is. Nobody is going to call the Feds down on your head if you fail a background check at the local gun shop.

    People are denied for all types of reasons - usually to be approved shortly after. It wouldn't make sense to run things the way you seem to think they are.
     
  10. Powderman

    Powderman Member

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    OK. The underlying question is this: what do you have in your past that would give you reason to believe that your purchase for a firearm would be delayed or denied?

    If you don't feel comfortable posting it here, PM me.

    Here is the crux of the matter: Get a copy of a 4473, and answer all the questions truthfully to yourself. Bottom line: if you have no felony convictions; no convictions for Assault or Domestic Violence; have no Orders of Protection or Restraint in force, received an honorable discharge if you have served and have not renounced your citizenship and are a US Citizen, you too can purchase a firearm.

    If you have been denied, there is a form you must fill out to appeal. Information about the form is available from the gun store.
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2008
  11. coloradokevin

    coloradokevin Member

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    To the OP, you either are or are not qualified to buy a gun based on your past (have you been convicted of a felony??)... You know your past, so base your decision on that alone.

    If you aren't a felon, etc, you should have no issues, and the point of having a gun store employee "clear" you is moot. If not, then you are in a different category entirely.


    Treo,

    There are other reasons why we can't conduct NCIC/CCIC clearances by telephone too, but I do like the 'come on in and we'll check approach' :)

    (honestly though, we don't lie about it here... I just tell them straight up: "You can go to any police station and they will tell you, but you'll be arrested if you have a warrant. And, if you don't like that, don't break laws/FTA/etc!"
     
  12. misANTHrope

    misANTHrope Member

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    Dear Lord, are you still wringing your hands over this?

    http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=353610
    http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=353843

    You're not going to get tossed in jail because you got denied for a purchase. It happens to people somewhat regularly, mistakes are made, and this is why there is an appeals process in place. Being denied is not a crime; the crime lies in willfully lying when you answer the questions on the 4473, which is an act of perjury.

    Just go fill out the damn form. As for your particular question in this thread, I'm fairly certain that an FFL is only permitted to perform a NICS check in concert with a purchase.
     
  13. Quiet

    Quiet Member

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    In CA and NV, you can contact the state to perform a background check to see if you can legally own/possess a firearm.
     
  14. Powderman

    Powderman Member

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    OK, I just read the other two threads. Two questions:

    1. What State did this occur in, and:
    2. What was the codification of the crime, and what was the punishment that you could have received?
     
  15. newbie4help

    newbie4help Member

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    It was a fake ID charge, it was DEFERRED and EXPUNGED and therefore I am OKAY technically. Don't know if it was felony or misdemeanor but that *************DOES NOT MATTER ************* Read the important notices on form 4473 - it says plain as day that if its been expunged you're not convicted and answer "no" to that question - in fact answering yes would technically be lying because you've never been convicted if that is the case. But all I had expunged was arrest and the docket about my deferred adjudication because I WAS NEVER CONVICTED ANYWAY. In other words, a deferred doesn't even count as a conviction in the state it happened in anyway.

    There is absolutely, 1000% no doubt that technically I am okay. I have never been convicted of anything, and even if I had been it was expunged. Case closed.

    I'm just freaked out it's going to be a system error. That is my sole worry. Or if there is some other stupid thing I don't know about like a parking ticket I forgot to pay etc.
     
  16. dmickey

    dmickey Member

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    Couldn't you wait until your 21st birthday before you started drinking? I'm 61 and I never bothered to start.
     
  17. NavyLCDR

    NavyLCDR member

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    Cripes, just go in, fill out the paperwork, NO I've never been convicted of a felony, be on your way. Get it over with. Get your feet wet. If you have never stood before a judge and the judge whacked the gavel and said "I find you guilty" then you were never convicted.
     
  18. romma

    romma Member

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    Um,, there are a lot of people that simply don't know if they are qualified.

    I know people that were convicted of misdemeanors that are now classified as felonies.

    People that were pardoned that don't know if they are qualified.

    People that had expungments that don't know if they are qualified.

    And on and on.
     
  19. Sniper X

    Sniper X Member

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    If you werent convicted, there is no record of the conviction. Therefore, that arrest, incident will not be a record of something the NICS will see or be concerned about. I had a freind who had a felony DUI 5 years ago, and buys guns all the time becuase he never gets denied.
     
  20. misANTHrope

    misANTHrope Member

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    For God's sake, you know you're OK, so you have nothing to worry about. The absolute worst thing that could conceivably happen is that you go in, end up getting denied, and spend a fair amount of time dealing with the appeals process.

    If you get denied, black helicopters will not disgorge Gestapo shock troops onto your lawn at o-dark-thirty. You have nothing to worry about, seriously.
     
  21. NavyLCDR

    NavyLCDR member

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    But there is no automatic handcuffing of a person who gets denied. If the guy has several felony convictions, or a blatant, yes you were found guilty, yes you were fined, then I can see reporting to the police for an attempted illegal gun buy. But that would be the dealer who would report it, not NICS.

    If you are buying from a dealer that will call the cops over every denial by NICS, then you need to find a different dealer. Any reputable dealer with a denial is just going to tell the person that they were denied and try to work with them by providing forms, etc to get the issue resolved so they can sell a gun.

    And besides, does a dealer even get informed as to why it was denied? The individual must request from NICS the reason for denial and NICS is supposed to respond within 5 days.
     
  22. NavyLCDR

    NavyLCDR member

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  23. NC Dave

    NC Dave Member

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    If your application is denied, you will not be in any trouble. That has been covered many times in this thread.

    Here's a question...if your records are screwed-up, don't you want to know so that you can get them fixed. If your are denied a purchased because of an error in your records, you have a nice appeal process in place to get it all addressed and then it will never be a problem again.

    If you call on your own and they say you would bedenied, you have nothing to appeal because you were not really deniedanything. In other words, you did not actually try to make a purchase. You would still be stuck trying to get your record cleared on your own. Why not use the appeal process already in place to help you if your records are, in fact, wrong?

    (I'm not a lawyer - that this for the free internet advice that it is!)
     
  24. claytonfaulkner

    claytonfaulkner Member

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    wow, thats awesome
     
  25. Im283

    Im283 Member

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    Everyone is right with what they are telling you. What aren't you coming clean about?

    I was denied on a purchase last summer due to an un-adjudicated arrest. If found guilty of this arrest I would have been denied permanently.

    The gun shop gave me the paper to fill out for the appeal, they faxed it right then. In about 7 days I got a phone call saying I was approved.

    My little problem was dismissed a couple of months later. (I was really truly NOT GUILTY btw)

    So go and do it, what do you have to lose?
     
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