You have $500.00 to spend on a .380....?

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Marshall

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Which one do you like best, Sig P232 SS or Blued, Walther PPK or PPK/S, CZ .380 or, Bersa? The CZ is the only one I can't feel up.

The following would be what I am primarily looking for differences in:


Reliable..feeding issues..picky on ammo?
Trigger
Nite sights...(I know I can get em on the Sig.)
Company, customer service
Accuracy

Thanks guys.
 
I had a really hard time with spending $300 for any .380, let alone $500, but no regrets with my CZ83. 10+1 Cocked'n'Locked or DA/SA from a manually lowed hammer. Good trigger, very accurate.

My wife loves it, shoots it well enough to pass the TX CHL qualifier, but can't work the slide -- so she'd DQ on any malfunction :-(

Function has been 100% so far but I never thumb my nose at Murphy!

Now I'm trying to get over the hump to bring myself to pay ~$450 for a Beretta 86 with the tip up barrel so no slide racking would be required.

Lots of better guns for $450-500 out there, but we have a very specific need here.

--wally.
 
Hello. I own a Walther PP and have owned a couple of PPK/S pistols as well. I currently have a SIG-Sauer P230, a CZ-83, and a Bersa. The Walthers and CZ have steel frames while the P230 (blue version) and Bersa have aluminum frames. I suspect strongly that if one did a torture test to see how many rounds each would fire before something gave, the steel guns would probably win.

In my case, the Bersa has run 100% for over 3K rounds and close inspection shows no cracks, abnormal wear, and there has been no small parts failure. The feed ramp is scuffed a bit, but not gouged. This is due to my using primarily ball and JHP's having rounded ogives.

I really appreciate the cocked-and-locked capabilities with the CZ83 and mine's proven reliable with every round I've tried except the Federal 90-gr. Hydrashok.
It is, at least, reliably unreliable with that particular round. All others have functioned 100%.

The Walthers I own bite me when fired due to the low slide and my fat hands.
My German/French PP .380 is somewhat picky with regard to JHP ammo. It also has the worst DA pull of the bunch. An old Walther PP .32 I bought from a guy needing money more than the gun has a superb DA pull so perhaps it's just my individual Walther .380 that has the substandard DA pull.

If interested, here's some observations concerning the Bersa vs. SIG-Sauer P230:

http://www.hipowersandhandguns.com/Sig Sauer Bersa.htm

I personally find the Bersa the most comfortable of the guns you specify, but that is subjective and does not mean that I find the CZ or SIG-Sauer uncomfortable.

For my needs and because I do not shoot .380 nearly so much as other rounds, my personal pick would be the Bersa. If you like the pistol but have concerns over the aluminum alloy frame, I THINK it's also available with a steel frame.

Here's an older report I did on the CZ-83. Perhaps it will be of some use:

http://www.pistolsmith.com/viewtopic.php?t=13241&highlight=range+report

My choice certainly is not the only one nor is it any more right or wrong than others. I do believe the Bersa to be a best buy at the current time.

Good luck in your query and best.

PS: Since the report on the CZ was done, I have recorded some chronograph results with various loads:

CZ83:

Glaser 70gr Safety Slug(Silver) Ave. Vel.=1299 (ES: 116/SD: 44)
Magtech Guardian Gold +P
85-gr JHP Ave. Vel. = 1075 (ES: 33/SD: 10)
Federal 90gr JHP Ave. Vel. = 1017 (ES: 48, SD: 17)
Federal 90 gr Hydrashok Ave. Vel. = 1036 (ES: 80, SD: 23)
Hornady 90 gr XTP Ave. Vel. = 933 (ES: 42, SD: 14)
Corbon 90gr JHP +P Ave. Vel. = 1083 (ES: 45, SD: 17)
Magtech 95-gr FMJ Ave. Vel. = 964 (ES: 29, SD: 10)
Remington UMC 95gr FMJ Ave. Vel. = 970 (ES: 32, SD: 9)
Remington 102-gr Golden Saber Ave. Vel. = 928 (ES: 70, SD: 22)
 
The Sig P232 feels a lot better than the PPK just by holding it. The P232 is a little larger than the PPK, but fills the hand a lot better. It also has smoother lines than the PPK. For some reason, the PPK felt sharp, kinda like how some 1911's come out of the factory. The fuller hand grip also makes the recoil of the gun more enjoyable to shoot. The PPK felt snappy for a .380 and quite uncomfortable to shoot.

YMMV.

Sig P232
 
SIG P230/P232.
Mine is a 230 stainless, and though a bit heavy, it's the smoothest most accurate .380 I've ever had the pleasure of owning.
 
I have a stainless Sig 230 and as much as I like it I haven't found it to be the most reliable gun I've ever owned. It doesn't like Federal Hydra-Shoks and it experienced a FTF once when a friend tried shooting it. I really haven't shot it very much at all so I need to give it a more thorough evaluation before making my final judgement. I never had a problem with Speer Gold Dot or Remington Golden Saber ammo in it. The trigger on my particular gun is extremely smooth and the ergonomics are great. If I were going to buy a .380 in that size class for protection I would seriously look at the Bersa as I've heard so many positive things about them and they are relatively inexpensive. My Sig is strictly for fun so its quirks don't really concern me to any great degree. My feeling is that it is a very unforgiving gun without the proper grip and hold as in limp wristing. I know other people that swear by their Sig .380's and have never had any malfunctions at all.
 
My 2 Cents...

I've owned Several .380s, Once Bersa, One Firestorm, One Iver Johnson, and next will be a Sig 232 if I get my way. The bersa/firestorms are great, as good or better than the Walther they copy and a lot lighter. Some say with a better trigger, I've not shot a Walther though so I don't know. I carry my Firestorm .380 in a S.O.B. holster and it's quite easy to eject the magazine when leaning against the wall. I've given myself away a few times doing this accidently. I like the Sig's mag release, it's on the bottom of the grip, as I'm sure you know. My Iver Johnson Pony, while problematic, was a great size .380. If I were going to go for something along those lines, I'd go for a Colt Pony or Mustang. Gunbroker.com always has some for sale and I love a Gov't model, even small ones. All in all though, quality would probably go to Sig while Value and Bersa/Firestorm are hand in hand. The next carry gun I hope to buy is a Sig Sauer 232 .380.
 
The Bersa is a fantastic deal for the money. It does everything the SIG P232 does, for half the money, and it has features the SIG lacks, like the American-style mag release and external slide release.

That said (tm), if I had $500 to burn on a .380, it would be (another) SIG P232, specifically the SL version with the stainless slide on a black alloy frame. It's the best of the three 232 offerings, combining the corrosion resistance of the all-stainless model with the light weight of the blued alloy model.

The other guns mentioned are nice and all, but the SIG is in a class of its own when it comes to fit, craftsmanship, and general "curb appeal". It fits the hand extremely well, it has excellent sights, it's easy to shoot well, and it's lightweight and thin for very comfortable carry. Some may be lighter, some may hold more rounds...but the P232 is my favorite .380 because it combines a host of good features in a high-quality, easy to carry, easy to shoot, and very attractive package. In addition to that, it's tack-driving accurate and stone-axe reliable with all sorts of ammo.

A close second would be the excellent Beretta 84/85, a very elegant little pistol that shares many of the P232s good qualities.
 
Iffin I had $500 to spend on a handgun, it SURE wouldn't be a .380... not W/ all the fine Springfield, Smitty, and other 9MM's out there... if it was a micro-compact I wanted, it'd be a Kel-Tec or a Kahr that I'd buy, but it'd still be in 9MM para, or .40 S&W, NOT a .380!
 
5 Smith & Wesson Sigma .380s. It seems possible one of them would work.

In your list, the only one I haven't shot is the CZ. I like the Bersa and the Sig. IMO, they function equally well. Two things led me to the Bersa over the Sig when I was buying a .380: how it functions and how much it costs. Given the same costs, I may have opted for a "funkier" .380 and gone with the Sig. The Bersa controls are more similar to other semi-autos that I've owned. But something about the Sig is just sexy. It might be the way it is finished out, but damn if it isn't sex on a stick.
 
Marshall, take the $500.00 and get yourself a Bersa Thunder .380 AND a Bersa Thunder .45 and have some change left for ammo. The Bersa are the best buy out there, for the money..They will do anything the hugher priced ones will do, and better than some.
 
Greeting's All-

Marshall my friend, you will find that SIG models
P230/P232 are somewhat larger frame weapons, than
a quality Walther PPK. In speaking of the word
quality we have in hand a excellent Interarms
stainless steel Walther PPK made right here in "The
Heart Of Old Dixie"; by Ranger FireArms of Gadsden,
AL under license of Carl Walther Waffenfabrik of
Germany.

This weapon has functioned flawlessly with all types
of ammunition; including 90 grain JHP's! Guess you
could say we got a good one, uh? Price NIB was
$459.95 + 8% sales tax.

Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member
 
MJRW, sex on a stick is right! ;)

Ala Dan, sounds if you do have a winner there! :)

Stephen, thank you so much for your in depth and time consuming reply! :D

Thanks to everyone who replied!
I can pick up the Sig for $405.00 to $434.00 depending on model. I just put $500.00 because of tax, ammo, etc.

I already have a BDA .380, so it's out. It's just too heavy with it's double stack, it's all steel with a nickle finish. The .380 (9 X 17) is a pretty cool cartridge IMO, when paired with the appropriate pistol to shoot it accurately. Don't get me wrong, the BDA is an extremely nice pistol, well made and handsome, great for looking at! :D However, it's sites suck and it's too heavy and thick for decent carry considering it's a .380. Isn't the Berreta about the same as the BDA?

I have an XD-40 I carry now OWB. I also have a Model 60 .357 I carry too IWB, pocket and ankle depending on the situations. This .380, if indeed I decide to buy one which I think I will, would be for carry also, just as another option.

Everyone has made great contributions and thank you much. I think I am leaning toward the Sig for many reasons brought up. Mostly though, I like it and know if I bought a Bersa, for example, I would always be eyeballing the Sig. I might as well get it and be done.

Yea, I think the duo tone or all stainless would look good with the top right grips below. What do all think on wood grips, any other brands better looking for the P232?

P230.jpg
 
Looks like Duckfoot was thinking along the same lines as me. Ever since I first saw the .380acp Browning BDA in a gun rag (back in the 80's), I've always wanted one. I know they're likely a bit too bulky and heavy for a .380, it still possesses that "class" that I find so appealing.

Though it's probably not the best for carry or home defense, it's unlikely anyone could be considered poorly armed if that's all they had (and wanted).

Though I understand the CZ-83 sits well in the hand, I'd probably go with a Bersa from the choices you listed, since I'm so stingy (that's why I'll likely never own a Browning BDA).

A .380acp with class (image from Auction Arms)
ACF1429.JPG
 
Well, the Bersa or the SIG would probably carry the best in comparable holsters. The CZ seems like a quality piece, but is certainly heavier than the Bersa. Not much experience with the 380 SIG but they seem kind of pricey to me. Had a bad experience with a PPK first time out and first impressions are hard to get past. Neat looking little guns, but I'd rather carry something else.

Actually, I'd probably look for one of the Sphinx 380s... very neat little guns and completely ambi. I'd take one over a SIG or CZ.

In all honesty, about the only 380 I would really seek out to carry would be the P3AT for pocket carry. With the smaller, lighter Kahrs, CZs, Springfields and Glocks, I'd really much rather have a 9, a 40 or a 45 for actual carry use.
 
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