You have three strategic choices.

[Dismantler]

I have read many threads with scenarios such as "What would you do if..."? They usually assume that a BG has entered the picture, and that you need to react. I have given these situations some thought, and have come to the following conclusion. You have three strategic choices:

1 - Engage the BG.

2 - Make yourself invisible. (This includes avoidance.)

3 - Get away.

Whether it is a bully in a schoolyard or a mall shooter, these are your three choices. The tactics that you use to to execute the strategy that you choose can vary, but the three strategic choices remain.

Let us use a fast food shooter as an example. You're enjoying your Super Duper Cholesterol Burger and a maniac starts shooting the place up. You can engage him by returning fire. You can hide under the table or in the rest room, thus (hopefully) becoming invisible. You can head for the exit. I cannot think of any other strategic choices.

Your strategy can change. Suppose that you are under the table, (invisibility) and the shooter is approaching. You may have to change your strategy to engage him. You have gone from invisibility to engagement. Perhaps your strategy is to engage the BG, but a panicked throng of fast food customers is rushing toward you on their way to the exit. You may be forced to flee with them, or be trampled. Here your strategy has changed from engagement to flight.

Sometimes you may not have all three strategic choices available to you. Perhaps you are in a rest room and a group of BG's comes in to take up a collection. You cannot hide or flee, so you need to engage the BG's one way or another. Your tactical choices are to reason with the BG's (does not usually work) or fight, or contribute to the collection. All three of these are examples of tactics. The strategy is to engage the BG's. The tactics are how you do it.

Note that there is a difference between strategy and tactics. Strategy is what you wish to do. Tactics are how you accomplish it. Take the fast food shooter again. You decide to engage him. That is your strategy. Your tactics may vary according to the situation. You may have to shoot it out with him head on. Or maybe you see that you can slip out an exit, come around and get behind him. Both are examples of tactics.

Having given this considerable thought, I cannot come up with any other strategic choices. Tactics will have to be improvised by the physical environment that you are in, and they can vary greatly. But these seem to be the three strategic choices. They are fight, flight, or invisibility. Keep those options in mind when surveying your environment. More than likely, you will make a snap decision on one of them if things go bad. The tactics that you use to implement the strategy will be determined in a large part by your physical environment and other factors such as other people in the area.

A healthy dose of Strategic Awareness is necessary, as the BG always starts with an advantage. You may say, "I am going to go get lunch." He is thinking, "I am going to go shoot up a fast food restaurant." He acts, and you must react. Keep your three strategic choices in mind as you survey your surroundings. Ask yourself, "Can I fight here? Can I hide here? Can I escape from here?" Having the three choices in mind can help you if it comes to an encounter wih a BG.

 

[mr.trooper]

Both?

run into bathroom, draw weapon, turn around, crouch.

If he follows you, you have the drop on him. IF its quiet for 5 min, or you hear the sirens arrive, then put your gun away and poke your head out.

 

[John4me05]

Depends on my family and wether they are there or not... If its me im gone if i can... As someone said before my gun is for me... But my life is for my wife and kids... If they are there i will defend them with every round i have and then my bare hands... If they are not there and its necessary i will engage to take my life BACK to my family... But i will not put myself in a suicide situation for strangers... Some may call it cold hearted but i owe my family everything and strangers nothing...
I wouldnt be getting paid hazard pay or paid leave or anything else if i had to drop someone... To me it just isnt worth the risk... Ill go home and relate the experience to the wife and say a prayer for the victims and thank God that i wasnt one...

 

[Dismantler]

mr.trooper,

Sure...ambush requires invisibility and engagement. I do not mean to imply that you are limited to only one strategy per problem. I just cannot think of any but the three. And I think that they all should be considered.

In nature creatures are generally given options for protection. They fight, run or blend in. Insects generally blend in. Rabbits blend in or run. My cat can be invisible one moment, running full speed the next, and then rolling around on the ground with the neighbor's cat...all in 10 seconds.

We have the ability to do any or all three. One does not exclude the other. We can run from a mugger, try to hide, be discovered, and then fight. You can use one, two or three strategies to solve one problem. I find that the emphasis on a gun web site is on using a gun to solve the problem. I wanted to present other strategies that are available.

 

[RiveraRa]

The 4th option would be to comply with their demands. This might not apply in a situation like VT but someone like a mugger who demands your wallet it could.

 

[Dismantler]

I consider giving in to the demands of a BG engagement. Technically, you engage the BG in the action of giving. Just the same as if a BG comes in to rob your store. Say he's a kid with a knife. If he is on the other side if the counter saying that this is a robbery, you may say, "Do you really wan to go down this road?" That is engagement. It is not necessarily just shooting the BG to engage him.

 

[Dksimon]

too many "What-ifs". Dont know what I would do, and I couldnt say unless I was atually in the position.

 

[BullfrogKen]

Dismantler said: I consider giving in to the demands of a BG engagement.

I'd disagree with that interpretation.


Col. Grossman posits in his book On Killing that humans have not 2, but 4 reactions to a threat offered by another:

• Fight
• Flight
• Posture
• Submit

I happen to agree with him. I'm not sure what invisibility means as a choice in a decision tree. It sounds more like a tactical variation of flight. Flight does not have to mean "run away". Flight includes any form of removing oneself from the fight.

 

[sm]

I have given these situations some thought, and have come to the following conclusion. You have three strategic choices:

Skip Gochenour shared in a American Tactical Shooting Association March, 2005 Newsletter:

There are various Violent Criminal Actor (VCA) Motive Models.
Instrumental, Expressive, Instrumental/Expressive and Killing.
Mr. Gochenour continues to define each of these motive models, and gives examples of each motive models skill sets.

Simply put, not every VCA is going to do "that" because they are a VCA.
One does not know what one might be up against.

Instrumental Motive Model might have the incorrect ammunition in his gun, he has never fired, and is willing to use his weapon or anything as a violent tool as he/she might actually enjoys violence.

Expressive Motive Model , the purpose of these models is to direct violence.
These Models showed up to to do violence, and have guns with the correct ammunition, they do know how to use guns, they have shown up with mutlitple guns, and these are well maintained.

Instrumental/Expressive Motive Model is a combination of these.


The Practitioner (you) therefore is best advised to "know thy enemy" and train for it.
I did not say "shoot a lot of rounds downrange", I will repeat, know thy enemy and train accordingly.

Three Options in my opinion are not nearly enough to deal with so many variations of VCAs and Acts.

Ken brought up Col. Grossman , and four reactions:
* Fight
* Flight
* Posture
* Submit

Giving into the demands of a VCA(s) of whom the purpose it to inflict violence, whether this is rape, and later gang bang, and then eventually killing , is not an option for many folks.

"But I a guy, these folks are not going to target me personally for rape, or gang bang initiation".

Your mom, wife, sister , daughter, or niece is not male.

VCA might target them for the very fact they are female.

VCA might target YOU and use these females against you.
Male or Female, if you have the keys to a business, where valuables are, and these valuables might or might not be in a walk in vault, with the most hi-tech alarm and security system.

If...If these VCA want what you have, or "think" you have, they might really enjoy having their way with a mom, wife, sister, niece or any female in your life.
Some enjoy violence, they enjoy sharing this violence, gang bang gets some initiation out of the way, including gang girls being a part of this rape.
Some enjoy using a knife and doing some carving on another human being.

This is why I and others strongly urge folks to not advertise.
It might be kewl to dress a certain way and strut with logo gear.
It might be a ego trip for everyone to see and hear you open and close a business - whether you are a male or female - and like to show off and boast about what all your job is about and what all accesses you have.

Nightmares are real, and one of the worst is for a mom or dad to hear a voice informing them - they will open a business or safe, and that female in their life is being held hostage, and criminal acts are being done, or will be done.





Skip Gochenour shared in a American Tactical Shooting Association February , 2006 Newsletter:

ADEE.

A model more appropriate to the non-duty sworn Practitioner who is compelled through necessity to confront a VCA involves avoidance, disengagement escape and evade.


.

 

[rrruuunnn]

this has crossed my mind a few times. because in your scenario, the bad guy or guys are already killing people. does that make you responsible as a concealment holder, i'm don't know. when the cops come to interview all the witnesses and see your permit, the cops will most likely ask what you are carrying. innocent bystanders and policemen will be looking at you. is there any legal consequences for not shooting back as a permit holder? i'm not siding either way, i'm just saying people are going to be looking at you when the cops ask to see your huge cannon that you refused to use.

 

[19-3Ben]

There is another option also.

Help to get others out of the situation if you can do so safely.

Example:
You are in the supermarket toward the check-out area when you hear someone in the back yelling and start shooting the place up.

1-You can run to the back and engage him.
2-hide among the produce with a butternut squash on your head, hoping he doesn't notice you.
3-[Depart] the area [immediately].
and
4- There are likely to be a bunch of people standing around all shocked like a deer in the headlights. If you take but a moment to tell them that someone is shooting, and that they should get the hell out of the area you may just save some lives. I'd like to think that if the situation permitted, I'd try to get people moving away from the gunfire and towards an exit while I play rear guard.

But like I said, that's only if the situation permits.

 

[rrruuunnn]

there is another option.

if you see some suspicious people, tell everyone we have to leave somewhere.
if you are a witness, when the cops come, slip away and call crime stoppers.