mcdonl
Member
As well as the right to wear what you want, go home, see your children, etc....
Do you have to fight?
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As well as the right to wear what you want, go home, see your children, etc....
Update from my post #5.
The soccer coach has died.
So much that a punch does not constitute deadly force.
www.khou.com
The soccer coach has died.
So much that a punch does not constitute deadly force.
www.khou.com
10mm Mike
Member
I can't speak to the edged weapons portions of that, but the empty handed segments I have seen have been complete garbage.
As has been mentioned, it all depends on your local laws.
Texas law specifically states that the "threat to use deadly force" is justifiable when the use of force is justifiable, however, that "threat" is NOT considered an actual "use of deadly force". Note that there is a difference between "force" and "deadly force".
So in your example, when confronted by an individual who has shown intent to cause great bodily harm or death, has the ability to carry out the threat, and there is an immediate need to apply force to stop the threat, a CHL holder is justified in pulling his arm and threatening to use deadly force to stop the threat. Should the threat ignore the warning, deadly force would be authorized.
But that is Texas...
Can you draw and shoot if the BG won’t move out of your way so you can leave or do you have to fight?
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Others have already said you need to know your state law which may include duty to retreat and dsiparity of force.
Too many people look at SD as only carrying a firearm. One needs to consider non-lethal and less thal lethal weapons as their state law will allow and some knowledge of unarmed defense.
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Others have already said you need to know your state law which may include duty to retreat and dsiparity of force.
Too many people look at SD as only carrying a firearm. One needs to consider non-lethal and less thal lethal weapons as their state law will allow and some knowledge of unarmed defense.
mljdeckard
Member
squidgator, that is why I said HE would have to determine it at the time. It's a matter of whether HE believed it and HE can convince a jury. For any of us, the situation might be different if it were us in the situation for a variety of reasons.
1911Tuner
Moderator Emeritus
The talk of unarmed combat and martial arts training, etc is fine and good...until you factor in the seasoned street fighter. The brawler who was beating people senseless before he was old enough to legally drive a car. The gen-u-wine badass who explodes on you before his smile has completely faded. If it's him that comes at you...you'll know that you're under attack about the same time your head hits the pavement.
10mm Mike
Member
the kind of guy that 1911Tuner is talking about, the seasoned street fighter or born brawler... those are the kind of guys where you need solid training in a legit unarmed combat style to defend yourself against to stand a chance against getting pasted in a hurry. from what i've seen of their unarmed curriculum you'd be better off carrying a rape whistle.
it all boils down to this: who in their right mind is going to ask a gun/knife instructor how to fist fight? you might as well ask a plumber to fix your computer while you're at it. if you want solid knowledge on unarmed self defense, you go to the local boxing gym/judo dojo/whatever not to a guy that teaches you to windmill like a 5 year old.
it all boils down to this: who in their right mind is going to ask a gun/knife instructor how to fist fight? you might as well ask a plumber to fix your computer while you're at it. if you want solid knowledge on unarmed self defense, you go to the local boxing gym/judo dojo/whatever not to a guy that teaches you to windmill like a 5 year old.
1911Tuner
Moderator Emeritus
I dunno. It worked pretty well for Harry Greb. ("The Pittsburg Windmill")
Doghandler
Member
OK, I think after reviewing this thread I have a useful answer.
Flashlight with a strobe and a good hose down with some pepper spray.
If that doesn't work then you still have the flashlight and you might have to kick him in the groin to get him to move away.
I hope one could get this done before their head hit the ground.
Flashlight with a strobe and a good hose down with some pepper spray.
If that doesn't work then you still have the flashlight and you might have to kick him in the groin to get him to move away.
I hope one could get this done before their head hit the ground.
1911Tuner
Moderator Emeritus
The only problem with pepper spray is that you have to use it before things go hand-to-hand. Otherwise, you get a good whiff of it, too. Bad scene. Ask me how I know that.
You'll notice that I tweaked your post a bit. If Art's grammaw hadda seen that, she'd have herself a stomp-down hissy fit.
You'll notice that I tweaked your post a bit. If Art's grammaw hadda seen that, she'd have herself a stomp-down hissy fit.
Doghandler
Member
"The only problem with pepper spray is that you have to use it before things go hand-to-hand. Otherwise, you get a good whiff of it, too. Bad scene. Ask me how I know that."
You'll notice that I tweaked your post a bit. If Art's grammaw hadda seen that, she'd have herself a stomp-down hissy fit."
OK, how do you know Art's grammy is going to have a hissy fit?
You're right about the pepper spray, Mr. Tuner. Hold on. I gotta check my Bat Belt....
Take 3...
"Look here, Man! Check this out. I got two Super Bowl tickets and they're yours if you let me through."
Can I blind him with the strobe now?
You'll notice that I tweaked your post a bit. If Art's grammaw hadda seen that, she'd have herself a stomp-down hissy fit."
OK, how do you know Art's grammy is going to have a hissy fit?
You're right about the pepper spray, Mr. Tuner. Hold on. I gotta check my Bat Belt....
Take 3...
"Look here, Man! Check this out. I got two Super Bowl tickets and they're yours if you let me through."
Can I blind him with the strobe now?
killchain
Member
Are you afraid for your life?
A) Yes
B) No
If A, shoot him only if he aggrevates the situation.
If B, don't shoot him.
A) Yes
B) No
If A, shoot him only if he aggrevates the situation.
If B, don't shoot him.
Neverwinter
Member
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Read the rules. See number 3. Rinse. Repeat."The only problem with pepper spray is that you have to use it before things go hand-to-hand. Otherwise, you get a good whiff of it, too. Bad scene. Ask me how I know that."
You'll notice that I tweaked your post a bit. If Art's grammaw hadda seen that, she'd have herself a stomp-down hissy fit."
OK, how do you know Art's grammy is going to have a hissy fit?
You're right about the pepper spray, Mr. Tuner. Hold on. I gotta check my Bat Belt....
Take 3...
"Look here, Man! Check this out. I got two Super Bowl tickets and they're yours if you let me through."
Can I blind him with the strobe now?
We get your point. The first option in a confrontation should always be the gun.
Doghandler
Member
"We get your point. The first option in a confrontation should always be the gun."
No shots fired so far. I'm still voting for the strobe.
No shots fired so far. I'm still voting for the strobe.
It's one thing to make threats. It's another thing if a guy implies he'll mess you up, IF you are foolish enough to accept his challenge. All you have to do is decline his invitation for mutual combat, despite anything he says about your mother.
No pepper spray, no stun gun, no anything. Just deescalate and wait it out. His steam will run out, eventually, or he'll declare victory because you're "chicken." Or worst case, he'll physically escalate and/or attack, but you can't count those chickens before they hatch.
As for the presumption that he is "kidnapping" you by blocking your escape, that only works if there was no previous foolishness between the two of you. And if it's really just a complete stranger that randomly wants to fight you, then you are going to have a really hard time convincing a jury. Even then, how long can he possibly stay mad and keep threatening you? Do you really have to be somewhere so bad you need to shoot him, then get arrested and post bail? I think you're better off waiting the 5 minutes for the hothead to cool off. It's way better to be "kidnapped" for 5 minutes than to be in jail for 5 years.
OTOH, maybe you want to engage in mutual combat. Some punks need a lesson. That's your choice to teach him one, but not with a weapon. It's true a punch can kill, but we're not talking about a soccer coach being sucker punched from his blindside. The guy in this scenario is physically equal and verbally escalating, giving you the opportunity for a fair fight. This is not a shoot situation; therefore, it's not a draw situation - period.
No pepper spray, no stun gun, no anything. Just deescalate and wait it out. His steam will run out, eventually, or he'll declare victory because you're "chicken." Or worst case, he'll physically escalate and/or attack, but you can't count those chickens before they hatch.
As for the presumption that he is "kidnapping" you by blocking your escape, that only works if there was no previous foolishness between the two of you. And if it's really just a complete stranger that randomly wants to fight you, then you are going to have a really hard time convincing a jury. Even then, how long can he possibly stay mad and keep threatening you? Do you really have to be somewhere so bad you need to shoot him, then get arrested and post bail? I think you're better off waiting the 5 minutes for the hothead to cool off. It's way better to be "kidnapped" for 5 minutes than to be in jail for 5 years.
OTOH, maybe you want to engage in mutual combat. Some punks need a lesson. That's your choice to teach him one, but not with a weapon. It's true a punch can kill, but we're not talking about a soccer coach being sucker punched from his blindside. The guy in this scenario is physically equal and verbally escalating, giving you the opportunity for a fair fight. This is not a shoot situation; therefore, it's not a draw situation - period.
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xcgates
Member
Per the OP, the other guy has already boxed you in, and is keeping you from leaving, seems like textbook use of threat of force. Depending on the laws of where you are. (ain't that always the case?)
If you have been boxed in by someone showing a willingness to fight, you don't have any other way out, I'll just say I sure wouldn't want to be in that position, and I couldn't say what I would do, as that would depend a LOT on the situation, demeanor, the guy is blasted, and other people are trying to move him/talk him down, etc, or is he just an angry guy who keeps pressing the situation no matter what you do?
Enter the problem of excessively vague what-ifs.
If you have been boxed in by someone showing a willingness to fight, you don't have any other way out, I'll just say I sure wouldn't want to be in that position, and I couldn't say what I would do, as that would depend a LOT on the situation, demeanor, the guy is blasted, and other people are trying to move him/talk him down, etc, or is he just an angry guy who keeps pressing the situation no matter what you do?
Enter the problem of excessively vague what-ifs.
Nushif
Member
True!
1911Tuner
Moderator Emeritus
Yep. Like the man said:
"When all you've got is a hammer, all your problems start to look like nails."
TCU
Member
this is a touchy situation. Anyway ive seen the old guys shoot, and i would NEVER mess with an old guy haha. That problem is something i have been thinking about. Im 6'1" 230 pounds, and very solid. If i was in a situation where a say 2 or more guys had an altercation with me it would be a hard choice. I am carrying, however i am much bigger than the average person. But since I am carrying what do i do, if i had to fight these guys they could get my weapon so that is out of the question. If unable to retreat, i would have to pull my gun on them for the fact they Cannot get my weapon. If they for some reason still tried to take it i would have to engage. This would be worse off for me to explain to a jury IMO because of my size.
Doghandler
Member
"this is a touchy situation."
No it's not and that's part of this problem. An actual assault hasn't been committed - only implied.
Somebody really needs to come along and lay some light on this situation.
No it's not and that's part of this problem. An actual assault hasn't been committed - only implied.
Somebody really needs to come along and lay some light on this situation.
Averageman
Member
A disparity of force can exist with only two parties. The fact that anybody is blocking your escape with the intent of forcing you into a physical altercation is called kidnapping and communicating a threat.
Ding Ding Ding,...We have the winner.
Ding Ding Ding,...We have the winner.
The Lone Haranguer
Member
I am 52 years old, 5'9" and 148 lbs. and have not been in any kind of fisticuffs since junior high (aka middle school). I am not going to allow myself to be punched if I can help it. Real fistfights and punches can maim or kill. I think that covers the "great bodily harm" part.
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