You know, maybe it is WAY too easy to get a gun.
- Thread starter waffentomas
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bdickens
Member
Whoo! Your daughter needs to get away FAST! Like, yesterday! And get her own gun in case the whack-job comes after her. She is in serious danger. Find a copy of The Gift of Fear by Gavin DeBecker and read it today. Then make her read it.
TallPine
Member
It was way too easy for his parents to have children 
Cougfan2
Member
waffentomas I feel for you in your situation. I obviously don't know you of your daughter, but I would sit down and have a heart to hear talk with her and make sure she knows it isn't because you're trying to control her life, it is out of your love and concern for her. I don't know if you have ever heard of Stephen R. Covey. He wrote a book call The Seven Habits of Highly Successful People.
One of the habits that I have embraced and try to use in my daily life is "Seek first to understand, then be understood". I hope it works out for you and your daughter.
One of the habits that I have embraced and try to use in my daily life is "Seek first to understand, then be understood". I hope it works out for you and your daughter.
rainbowbob
Member
I'm curious how Mom got the gun away from a legal adult in legal possession? Apparently she still has some control over him. I'm guessing it is because he still lives with her (probably rent-free).
Does your daughter live with you? If so - that should give you some control over her behavior and choice of friends.
How old is your daughter? If she is a minor you may have some leverage with statutory rape charges.
This guy sounds like real bad news waiting to happen. I agree with others here that the gun is not really the issue. Fists, knives, sticks, cars, rocks - all provide effective tools for assault if that is the intent.
Warning: thread drift...
I have a sister-in-law WAY past the age of knowing better. Her long-time live-in BF has been doing this kind of intimidation thing for years. It doesn't get better - it DOES get worse. He started out following her and threatening or even assaulting people she was seen with. She does openly cheat on him, so their whole mess is definately a two-way street.
Everyone in the family has allowed themselves to get drawn into their drama at one point or another - usually when she SWEARS she is really leaving him THIS time. The last time he kicked in the side of her car I bought her some pepper spray (she wouldn't have a gun) and told her she was probably next.
A few days later they were out getting s-faced drunk. He got pissed because she let someone buy her a drink, so she decided to leave early. He followed a little while later and left the road at an estimated 100 mph. He was found the next day in the ditch still alive somehow. So guess what? She is now devoting her life to caring for her brain-damaged BF who can no longer work.
Back on-thread:
I guess my point for the OP is:
1.) This doesn't have anything to do with the easy accessability of firearms.
2.) Do what you can to end this thing before it becomes a bad habit.
Sebastian the Ibis
Member
This is easy to take care of. Get a restraining order against this guy. In Washington State if a restraining order is issued against someone they have to turn in/get rid of their firearms. It has the added benefit of keeping the guy away from your house/daughter- he shows up he goes to jail, as simple as that.
I'm not a Lawyer, but I think in most places you need 2 incidents of violence/threats to get the restraining order. Shooting a gun into a tree sounds like 1 (I hope you have a police report), if he has hit you or your daughter or anyone else or made any sort of threat that is two. If he hasn't yet, wait until he does and you are good to go.
If you want to get it done properly hire an attorney who can do it for you. It might cost you a $1-2,000 but if your daughter needs it she needs it.
If you want to get it done cheaply the link to the Washington forms are at the bottom, read them carefully and see which one best fits your situation. You can argue these yourself but I would highly recommend going to the courthouse on Domestic Violence day and see how it is done. You need to establish: 1) that you are the good guys 2) you genuinely fear for your life 3) that you have met whatever the legal requirements are for the order. These hearings happen without a jury and they go really really fast (5-10mins. each) so it is imperative that you do it right the first time.
The law can work amazingly well if you know how to use it when you need it.
http://www.courts.wa.gov/forms/index.cfm?fa=forms.contribute&formID=37
I'm not a Lawyer, but I think in most places you need 2 incidents of violence/threats to get the restraining order. Shooting a gun into a tree sounds like 1 (I hope you have a police report), if he has hit you or your daughter or anyone else or made any sort of threat that is two. If he hasn't yet, wait until he does and you are good to go.
If you want to get it done properly hire an attorney who can do it for you. It might cost you a $1-2,000 but if your daughter needs it she needs it.
If you want to get it done cheaply the link to the Washington forms are at the bottom, read them carefully and see which one best fits your situation. You can argue these yourself but I would highly recommend going to the courthouse on Domestic Violence day and see how it is done. You need to establish: 1) that you are the good guys 2) you genuinely fear for your life 3) that you have met whatever the legal requirements are for the order. These hearings happen without a jury and they go really really fast (5-10mins. each) so it is imperative that you do it right the first time.
The law can work amazingly well if you know how to use it when you need it.
http://www.courts.wa.gov/forms/index.cfm?fa=forms.contribute&formID=37
brighamr
Member
Here's some advice:
Don't be the girl's father who tries to police the girl.
Yep, that's a hard one to do. If your daughter was 15, I'd say sick the dogs on the SOB. however, at 21 (or close to it) both your daughter and "mr loser" are adults wether you like it or not. They legally can fly to peru if you pressure them too much, and if/when that happens there will be absolutely nothing you can do.
I was once the "mr loser" as you describe. Admittedly I never shot a tree at night for rage, but I "couldn't hold down a job" and I "had family problems" and frankly I got into fights for mundain reasons.
what made me change my ways? My future wife's father. I had no idea I would marry her at the time (we were 19) but her father gave me some respect and trust (something my family had never done). He took the time to invite me to family gatherings, teach me how to golf, and explained how working hard pays (He actually showed me his savings account and how he plans to retire in HI. No small feat for a self-employed MD). Keep in mind, all of this happened while I was dating his eldest daughter who was going to UCD and I was unemployed.
You have a few choices:
1) continue to rat him out, and treat him like a "loser"
2) try to be a mentor without being a cop
3) give him some incentive to turn around (aka: if "mr loser" can earn x amount of dollars, you'll take them both camping or something)
4) give up on this lost cause and hope your daughter meets mr perfect
Its a hard spot to be in. My oldest brother's daughter is now dating and he's pressured her into moving in with an 18 yo boy who doesn't seem to be very bright. He had great intentions, but unfortunately couldn't see the effects of over-pressure ahead of time.
Don't be the girl's father who tries to police the girl.
Yep, that's a hard one to do. If your daughter was 15, I'd say sick the dogs on the SOB. however, at 21 (or close to it) both your daughter and "mr loser" are adults wether you like it or not. They legally can fly to peru if you pressure them too much, and if/when that happens there will be absolutely nothing you can do.
I was once the "mr loser" as you describe. Admittedly I never shot a tree at night for rage, but I "couldn't hold down a job" and I "had family problems" and frankly I got into fights for mundain reasons.
what made me change my ways? My future wife's father. I had no idea I would marry her at the time (we were 19) but her father gave me some respect and trust (something my family had never done). He took the time to invite me to family gatherings, teach me how to golf, and explained how working hard pays (He actually showed me his savings account and how he plans to retire in HI. No small feat for a self-employed MD). Keep in mind, all of this happened while I was dating his eldest daughter who was going to UCD and I was unemployed.
You have a few choices:
1) continue to rat him out, and treat him like a "loser"
2) try to be a mentor without being a cop
3) give him some incentive to turn around (aka: if "mr loser" can earn x amount of dollars, you'll take them both camping or something)
4) give up on this lost cause and hope your daughter meets mr perfect
Its a hard spot to be in. My oldest brother's daughter is now dating and he's pressured her into moving in with an 18 yo boy who doesn't seem to be very bright. He had great intentions, but unfortunately couldn't see the effects of over-pressure ahead of time.
1911Tuner
Moderator Emeritus
It's always been easy to get a gun...almost anywhere. AMerica doesn't have the market cornered on easy access to guns or anything else.
Restrictions won't change that. Reference "Prohibition" and you can see how that worked out. So, tighter restrictions won;t likely change a thing. They will, however create a growing black market that will probably put a larger number of guns into hands that we might be a little nervous over.
The issue isn't one of equipment or availability of same. It's a question of maturity and of accountability, and plain common sense.
I know and have known several 12-16 year-olds who I wouldn't be at all nervous about having complete control of firearms 24/7/365. I know many 40 and 50 year-olds that I wouldn't want to be on the same 40-acre farm with if they had an air rifle in their hands.
Restrictions won't change that. Reference "Prohibition" and you can see how that worked out. So, tighter restrictions won;t likely change a thing. They will, however create a growing black market that will probably put a larger number of guns into hands that we might be a little nervous over.
The issue isn't one of equipment or availability of same. It's a question of maturity and of accountability, and plain common sense.
I know and have known several 12-16 year-olds who I wouldn't be at all nervous about having complete control of firearms 24/7/365. I know many 40 and 50 year-olds that I wouldn't want to be on the same 40-acre farm with if they had an air rifle in their hands.
Sage of Seattle
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JesseL said:
Exactly. This is the point in your life, and could be a point in many peoples' lives, where the rubber meets the road. Do you support the RKBA or not? None of us can say, "good for me but not for thee" because some people aren't trustworthy or reckless. Have you gone to a car forum and ask for advice about maybe getting his car taken away? After all, he's displaying very dangerous behaviors with a two ton missle that's being driven down the road...
I dunno, you certainly aren't in an enviable position. I have no idea what I'd do, at least until I'm in a similar situation with my own two daughters. After your children pass into the age of adulthood, it still doesn't take away all of a parents' responsibilities towards their children, but passing into adulthood is not only a trying time for the child/adult, and is a period of significant change, but also for the parent who has to learn to accept that our loved ones may not make the best of choices for their own lives and that "control" isn't an option (even if it ever really were).
You seem to have been doing all the right things, IMO. The mentor idea from SuperNaut may be a choice, but we know far too little about the strained relationship that's already there to even guess whether or not that would be effective.
Soybomb said:
I'd run too from an angry florist. You seen what a guy can do with a pair of pruning shears? He'd eff you up!
Prince Yamato
Member
How on earth does somebody meet someone this crazy and stick with them. Maybe it's time your daughter saw someone else. Or you told so and so to stay away from said daughter. How is it that he is 21 and his MOM took away his gun?
I'm also pretty sure that the cops could ballistically identify the weapon used in the discharge.
I'm also pretty sure that the cops could ballistically identify the weapon used in the discharge.
rainbowbob
Member
jgo296:
Are you trying say that good people should remain silent in the face of evil? If that WAS the intent of your post...:banghead: :
walking arsenal
Member
I agree with brighamrs statement 100 percent.
I'd listen to him as I think he's spot on having been one of those "losers" myself.
I'd listen to him as I think he's spot on having been one of those "losers" myself.
demod
Member
I totally believe in mentoring the guy. But not when your daughters life could be in danger.
That being said.
I have a good job that pays better then most
I put money into retirement
I in the process of buying a house
I have a CCW and carry on a regular basis
I understand the reasonability of owning and carrying a firearm
Did I mention I Am 22 And Single.
Jonathan
That being said.
I have a good job that pays better then most
I put money into retirement
I in the process of buying a house
I have a CCW and carry on a regular basis
I understand the reasonability of owning and carrying a firearm
Did I mention I Am 22 And Single.
Jonathan
The problem here isn't access to firearms.
The problem is lack of parenting, immature behavior on the behalf of Mr. Tough-Guy and very poor judgement on behalf of your daughter.
It's really easy to blame it all on the inaminate object. Much harder to look at the root casues sometimes.
Cosmoline
Member
Why would there be a later? Daughter dumps him, gets a DVRO, leaves no address, and kills him if he comes after her. Nothing to do with gun laws.
In the mean time, contact the DA and offer to testify in open court, and get your daughter do to the same. Encourage the DA to bring additional charges for mishandling the firearm, which can kick it into felony range. Contact the feds and report it as a gun crime.
Of course, if your daughter is foolish enough to stand by her man she'll reap whatever comes of it. But that's true whether we're talking about guns, knives, or fists.
jakemccoy
Member
waffentomas,
If it wasn't a gun, this kid would have been throwing knives at the tree. That would have been no less dangerous. So, it's not the gun; it's the kid. Don't ruin things for me because of a-holes like this kid and other people.
Imagine if one million people like you wanted to make it tougher to get guns for reasons in the original post. Total chaos and a military state to enforce a mythical gun free zone would result.
You're not the only one with the problem you presented. Please remove your emotions and try to understand the big picture.
-Jake
If it wasn't a gun, this kid would have been throwing knives at the tree. That would have been no less dangerous. So, it's not the gun; it's the kid. Don't ruin things for me because of a-holes like this kid and other people.
Imagine if one million people like you wanted to make it tougher to get guns for reasons in the original post. Total chaos and a military state to enforce a mythical gun free zone would result.
You're not the only one with the problem you presented. Please remove your emotions and try to understand the big picture.
-Jake
Here's the paradox: it's because people like that can get guns that I feel the need to arm myself to protect myself and my family.
Of course, he could've gotten a gun in a shady part of town for the same amount or less, and with no waiting period. There's always that problem. A good question is: would he be the type to do that, and if not, has his relatively easy path to legal gun ownership put society at risk? And if it has, would laws to curb that, while protecting us from this one person, then subject us to greater statistical danger because we cannot legally carry a firearm? I don't have all those answers, but I'm glad I have a right to bear arms. I believe that right does more good than harm.
Of course, he could've gotten a gun in a shady part of town for the same amount or less, and with no waiting period. There's always that problem. A good question is: would he be the type to do that, and if not, has his relatively easy path to legal gun ownership put society at risk? And if it has, would laws to curb that, while protecting us from this one person, then subject us to greater statistical danger because we cannot legally carry a firearm? I don't have all those answers, but I'm glad I have a right to bear arms. I believe that right does more good than harm.
rainbowbob
Member
I presented one side in the description of the loser my S-I-L has been hooked up with for many years.
Perhaps more appropriate to the situation at hand would be an account of the "loser" MY daughter hooked up with - and how that turned out.
She had just turned 18 and was still living at home, going to college and working.
Her BF was an illegal alien (I was ignorant of that fact) who I liked. He was hard-working and polite. He borrowed her car one night and wrecked it running away from the police! he was afraid he would be deported and never see my daughter again.
I bailed him out when I found out that he and my daughter had been secretly married!
I let him know that I would be watching his every move and that I would make sure he would never see her again if he didn't get legal. They were able to convince immigration of the legitimacy of their marriage and he got his green card.
That was over ten years ago. She completed her degree and has a good career. He is a smart hard-working young man who also has a good career in the construction industry and has moved from laboror, to framer, to safety officer.
Four years ago they arranged a reanactment of their vows so that I could wear a tux and give my daughter away. His wonderful family from Mexico City were there as well. They have purchased a beautiful home and have given my wife and me the light of our life - our grandson.
It can work out. The caveat however is that my son-in-law never displayed any propensity for violence. The same cannot be said for the BF in the OP's story.
Perhaps more appropriate to the situation at hand would be an account of the "loser" MY daughter hooked up with - and how that turned out.
She had just turned 18 and was still living at home, going to college and working.
Her BF was an illegal alien (I was ignorant of that fact) who I liked. He was hard-working and polite. He borrowed her car one night and wrecked it running away from the police! he was afraid he would be deported and never see my daughter again.
I bailed him out when I found out that he and my daughter had been secretly married!
I let him know that I would be watching his every move and that I would make sure he would never see her again if he didn't get legal. They were able to convince immigration of the legitimacy of their marriage and he got his green card.
That was over ten years ago. She completed her degree and has a good career. He is a smart hard-working young man who also has a good career in the construction industry and has moved from laboror, to framer, to safety officer.
Four years ago they arranged a reanactment of their vows so that I could wear a tux and give my daughter away. His wonderful family from Mexico City were there as well. They have purchased a beautiful home and have given my wife and me the light of our life - our grandson.
It can work out. The caveat however is that my son-in-law never displayed any propensity for violence. The same cannot be said for the BF in the OP's story.
ProficientRifleman
Member
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Yeah, lets punish everyone who DIDN't do it! That's the answer!
Young men do stupid things. Young men without fathers do far worse. The state is never a replacement for a father figure.
Legislating for the 10% of the people that cause 90% of the crimes in our country is a quick way to start abridging freedoms.
Legislating for the 10% of the people that cause 90% of the crimes in our country is a quick way to start abridging freedoms.
so none of you use shooting as stress relief
i must admit i have shot a tree or 2 in my day ive even put a target on a tree and in doing so premeditated shooting said tree
snitching to police will do nothing but hassle the young man and might push a disturbed individual to actions he might otherwise not commit if you are concerned he may have some mental health issues calling cops for shooting a tree will certainly not help
i must admit i have shot a tree or 2 in my day ive even put a target on a tree and in doing so premeditated shooting said tree
snitching to police will do nothing but hassle the young man and might push a disturbed individual to actions he might otherwise not commit if you are concerned he may have some mental health issues calling cops for shooting a tree will certainly not help
jakemccoy
Member
ny32182 wrote,
I agree.
I agree.
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