You really want to know?

[sm]

Go sit in a courtroom.

-If you really want to know what is going down where you live.
-What crimes are being done and by what type of people.
-How victims are targeted and what type of criminals target what kind of victim.

-What a Jury of your Peers means, and how they are selected.
-Lawyers for Prosecution, and Lawyer for the Defense.

-Law. What really is the "law" where you live.
-Definition of Law and Interpretations of the Law.

-Innocent until Proven Guilty of the accused.
-Rights of the Victim.

-Beyond a Resonable Doubt.
-What a Prudent Person would do in this situation.

-Investigations, and Presentation of Evidence.
-Sentencing.

-How expensive Legal Process can be, and not just the financial expense.


Investigate & Verify are two more tools of Strategy & Tactics.


I do not care what teh Intrawebz "sez" what one can do in Texas and what one cannot do in Illinois.

I could care less what some TeeVee Judge "sez" .

I would not give you a plugged nickel for all the Reality Shows about Cops, I don't personally own a TV and have not in - I forget how many years!

I realize Internet allows for faster communication amongst a greater number of persons.
Some of the information being communicated has, is and will continue to get folks into some serious trouble.


Folks think they know the "law" on teh Interwebz.
Even the cops, lawyers and judges do not know all of the laws and have to look them up, and look at ones going way back, and ones just enacted.

And somehow we have a[ I] Deegle Leegles[/I] on teh Intrawebz ???

Pay attention. It does not matter what your gun laws, knife laws , or any "weapon law" , or "right to defend" yourself bit is.

You can screw blue and tattoo yourself so easy as it is, you for sure do not want the Deegle Leegles advising you.

Deegle Leegles ain't gonna be at your "serious situation" and they for sure are not going to put up your bond, bail , be your attorney's or pay for your legal fees.

You get one phone call, you ain't getting a laptop and the chance to log in to check with your innernet buddies.

That street thug knows more about the Law than you do, and he/she will beat you like a drum on the street using the honest to goodness legal for your locale against you.

Be the firstest with the mostest - General Nathan Bedford Forrest, CSA

One would be wise to Investigate & Verify what is what where they live before heading out the door into the Real World.

Being armed with knowledge, with the mindset of survival , begins way before someone puts on any clothes and dressed for the day to head out.

Way before they put anything in a pocket, purse, belt, briefcase, in a vehicle -anything.

 

[hso]

Now, Steve, people are fundamentally lazy and it's much easier to adjust their cheerleader outfit and sit in front of the computer (and just a few steps from the fridge) and pretend to be bull elephants than it is to do any real work. Heck, most folks won't even go to the trouble to look up the state code on an issue much less the case law.

 

[sm]

This is how it plays for most jurisdictions I am familiar with based on real life.

Anything used to "defend" becomes a "weapon".

-Your child's T-Ball bat, in the car and some punk grabs you , or your child as you are unloading the T-Ball gear and you hit the punk with that T-Bat, that T-Ball is going to be defined as a "weapon".

Now first responders are going to arrive and see a mom/dad, with a kid dressed for T-Ball and other kids and adults with T-Ball as a the reason for being gathered.

"What a prudent person would do in this situation"
"Beyond a reasonable doubt".

Well, the punk had something in his/her hand, the adult were in fear of injury and the mom/dad/kid was grabbed, pushed and all and

The bat was just there and mom's will go into "protective mode" to protect kids. So will a dad, a grandparent, any adult.


Contrast with Deegle Leegles:

"Dude you gotta get you a old Louisville Slugger and hammer some nails in that badboy!
Wear that "Kill'em all and someone will sort'em out" T shirt, the one that matches your vanity plate "Ultimate Evil Is MY Ultimate Shottie!"

First Responders are going to see a ball bat, with nails and someone dressed as they are driving a vehicle with said license plate.

You ain't looking good and you ain't even out of the gate yet.

Well the punk thug, is hurt pretty bad and since he /she knows the law better than "Badbat Billy" , the punk shuts up, except to moan, groan, and bleed all over everything.
Pictures are taken and more will be taken in the ER and in the OR of said street thug.
Street Thug is already out of the gate, and has documention to support them and their attorney.

You get your picture took and maybe you get your CCW badge to show in the picture.
Still they got that T shirt with message for sure.
Well that picture is going onto the outside of a folder , where more pictures will be added and all sorts of things about your case.

I mean the first thing anyone sees is that picture.

Now if you cop an attitude and start mouthing off, your butt is going downtown.
Everything can and be used against in a court of law because you mouthed off about "rights" and you got to hear Miranda just like on TeeVee.

Now you had better hope they put your butt in a separate booking or holding or "shut up" cell.
Because if they put you in a cell with others...
Your pockets are emptied, you remove your shoes, belt, any jlry...
You are not looking coming out of the gate holding up your pants with one hand being led to a cell.

Thug is getting all sorts of attention, taken care of.

You...you got drunks, dopers, rapers, whores, vomit and that little fella only 5'4" and weighs 115 pounds can kick your butt like white on rice.
The whores are going to read you like a book.
You had better hope mom and dad get the attorney and money up to get you out and fast.
You had better shut up. Them folks in cell college will find out more information about you, your GF/BF, parents, running buddies and everything else and that can and will cause a lot more headaches for you and yours later on, and in the future.

So you get a lawyer and you get a haircut, cleaned up, wearing real clothes and the attorney has instructed you umpteen times on how to act.
Attorney is going to ask you umpteen bazillion times is there anything , no matter how small, you need to tell them.

You had better tell them, and I don't care how small or trivial it seems to you, you had better spill it.

You arrive to see the judge and you might have cleaned up, but that picture is what the judge sees on you folder.

Your attorney did ask you what you were wearing it might have been a real good idea to tell them what that T shirt said.
It seems you forgot to mention hammering nails in the ball bat too...

Your attorney is getting the first of many headaches ...

Now the thug ain't said much, except moan, groan, bleed, get fixed and be attended to, and have pictures took along the way from the time hit with a bat with nails hammered into it, to being in a hospital bed.

Now if this shin-dig goes to trial...that is a living nightmare and it costs more than just money.
It cost emotions, relationships, job problems and all sorts of things...

Jury of your peers are not 12 dudes that are clones of you.

Oh yeah them jurors are going to see pictures.
I mean you and the thug you hit are going to be seen.
The judge, jury, baliff know what you and the thug look like in the courtroom is not how you looked the day of the event.

That ball bat with nails is going to be presented as evidence.

Eyes are going to flash to you, and then the thug.
Every movement you make in a courtroom is watched. Anytime your attorney leans over, you lean over, something is written down, you cross arms, uncross arms, shift in a chair...
Your butt is being read.

Now you may have been in charge of a kid taking them to T-Ball practice.
A street thug might have really caused a serious threat by having something, and the motions they did to make you feel you and that kid were in fear of injury.

You had better have a really good attorney.
The thug had you beat before you ever got out of the gate and has been running a good race all along, and he/she is near the finish line.


My point is this.
Stairstep of force needed to stop a threat.

You stop the threat and anything you use, will be viewed.

This crap about adding nails to bats, adding plumber's lead to canes, and walking sticks, sharpening both side of a pocket knife [dirk?] , carrying bleach in a bottle, lye in a bottle, making a knife automatic , making a gun full auto, modifying ammunition, using Dragon's Breath, Fletchesttes and the like ...
Will bury your butt under the jail!


That mom used a T-Ball Bat and that is what a prudent person would do in that situation.
She was in T-Ball mom clothes and all the other moms were dressed like her.
All the other moms and kids said they had been feeling "creepy" with some thugs hanging around the park.

She has no Problem 2

She left the house with a mindset of being aware, and keeping herself and her child safe before she ever left the house.
It does not matter if her jurisdiction allows CCW, or not. If her jurisdictions allows CCW in a park or not.

She had mindset and awareness to keep her and her child safe.
She could have used her purse, a diaper bag for a younger kid, a backpack, her travel mug...

Investigate and Verify for your area what is what .

 

[Pilgrim]

Real court is better than TV court.

Pilgrim

 

[Wildfire]

Wow!

Hey there'
Very well said. I could not agree more. We seem to have plenty of Dirty harrys around.
You are exactly right. The local laws here are surely different then where you live. Even the law enforcement here does not know the laws.
How then could any of us expect to nail down the correct answers to a given situation ?
Fact ! we can not. Nor can any one on this forum. You said it right. No one here is gonna bail me out.
Use of any thing other then and including your fist in a self defence ordeal can get you some time off . Castle laws or not. Better be darn well cut a dry'd deal or you may end up in jail.
I would stand my ground and defend my self or others here. But . Lethal force will be a last resort. I carry every day.
I dare say very few if any of these self appointed Lawyers here have ever been in any sort of self defence situation.

 

[Huckle2]

That could be a couple days well spent...hmm.

 

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

sm speaks very wisely.

 

[ar10]

guess I'm lucky, appellate judge is one of my neighbors and good friend. I get to spend a lot of time in a court room when the real good cases get going.
Thing I learned: What you do (actions), good or bad, doesn't mean a think in court.

 

[Fred Fuller]

Sitting in a courtroom while a felony trial is under way is among the least expensive educational (not to mention entertainment) venues available in most places. Everyone should try it... it might help avoid getting your first courtroom experience on the wrong side of the bar.

lpl/nc

 

[conw]

Like the thread.

The whores are going to read you like a book

What a way with words...what a guy. I love these kinds of discussions.

that little fella only 5'4" and weighs 115 pounds can kick your butt like white on rice.

 

[sm]

CSI Syndrome is a concern in courtrooms today.

Television has dumbed down society and therefore been able to brainwash the masses.

Society used to be full of Free Thinkers .

1. Do not think if you have a situation your situation is going to investigated as CSI investigates one.

2. If you are on a jury, do not expect to see evidence presented as you have seen on CSI.

Yes, situations are investigated.

The Reality is, there is only so much time, , money , manpower and "quality for monies spent" , in dealing with a situation.

The Courts have heavy case loads. Investigators have case loads.
Prosecutors have case loads...


True.
I was the Foreman on a Jury of a Rape case.
We could not find the accused guilty of rape, or sexual assault beyond a reasonable doubt.

To be honest, we the jury were a bit upset as to how pathetic the case was presented.
That poor victim had to re-live that nightmare again in a courtroom.

Now the whole time the accused was out on bond, he worked in a hi-class restaurant.
I mean a real high class place, one paid a yearly fee to be a member and the meals were Five Star.
This is where the Old Money went , when they did not go to the Country Club.
New Money showed, and even Regular folks could attend with invite and recommendations.
So a business entertains clients, and then perhaps one of the employees has a 10th anniversary and "Hey, you two have a nice time, we will have the Limo driver pick you two up and the evening is on the company".

This is where this accused worked.
This is where he continued to work while out on bond.

This is the fella that brings your 10 year old her B-Day Cake, Assisted putting that nice pearl necklace around your wife's neck, Escorted your college age daughter over to the window to see the view...

He looked like a Financial Planner, or Stocks & Bonds, or even College Professor teaching Business.
Brooke's Brothers suits, silk ties, and custom leather shoes.

We could not find him guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.
I am dead serious, we the jury were sick about this.

Asst DA caught me a few days after the verdict, pulled me aside and her eyes spoke volumes.
"This stays private, you know how this plays, still that girl is in the loop. We have been working on a Murder Case, and our time, money and energies have been spent, on that case, not the Rape Case."
This DA, said her job totally sucked at times. That poor girl we had in the trial I was foreman on, knew, going into her trial, she was going through hell with no chance of a verdict going her way. She held up very well, because she knew a more solid case was being built.

This fella was convicted of two counts of murder.
Word is, he did not survive past 2 years in the joint.

Serious Situations are not 30 min, or 60 min from start to finish. They are not "will be continued" next week and then finished in another 30 or 60 minutes.

One does not go from "serious" , through CSI, to courtroom razzle dazzle with flashy evidence, charts and all , to guilty , and life being right again .

One does not go from being a victim, having a commercial break for more beautiful skin, having surgery, going through rehab to learn to walk again and life is a rose garden again in 30 minutes either.

 

[ezypikns]

Go sit in a courtroom.

Excellent advice.
Oh, and when you're taking your training course to get your CHL (or whatever they call it in your state), sit up, pay close attention, and LISTEN. You'll learn some things that may surprise and sober you.

 

[The Tourist]

Most of the time I was in court it was for financial reasons--oh, and that one CCW charge.

But my real education came from being picked for jury duty. I was laid off during that two month period and I had no excuses. So I went.

Sat in a room with about 400 people and I didn't know I could bring a book. When my number was called, I filed out. I was assigned to a case, and made the cut of the original 12 jurors.

As the opening remarks began, I realized that my career made me more of a liability than the handful of questions asked revealed. I had to raise my hand and suggest a Voir Dire. Yikes, the judge was mad, and the opposing counsel was furious. I was sent packing.

And back to the room with 400 other candidates.

After five hours, I was told to go home.