Your ammo of choice & why?
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Remington 125gr SJSP. Fast even in short barrels, if you can't guarantee expansion go for penetration.
Federal 158gr Hydra shock. Like Leelu Dallas says : big bang boom.
I don't use 38's in my 357's. I like both of these factory rounds, but the 125's can sting your hand.
I'd go with which of either you can shoot accurately.
Federal 158gr Hydra shock. Like Leelu Dallas says : big bang boom.
I don't use 38's in my 357's. I like both of these factory rounds, but the 125's can sting your hand.
I'd go with which of either you can shoot accurately.
MCgunner
Member
Until I can find a copper furnace to cast copper bullets, I'll continue casting lead.
SCREW the environment! I'm so danged fed up with granola crunchers telling me about saving the whales and the polar bears or whatever! I've been casting for 35 years, rolling my own for 50. CorBon may work, may not, but it certainly costs too much for practice. I can load a box of my own cast bullets (I do the environment a favor and dig it out of the backstop at the club's range...it's called recycling ) for the price of a primer (about 4 cents) and 2.7 grains of Bullseye. Figure 2 and a quarter a box of 50 for practice ammo. I get lots of practice. I'm good with a handgun as a result.I figured it I waited someone would post what I was thinking.
Right on the money McGunner.
However, I'm not convinced that their is anything better about Copper or brass in the wild then lead. I think this is another anti-gun design to take firearms out of the hands of the many, cut the business down, and have only the rich with guns.
Right on the money McGunner.
However, I'm not convinced that their is anything better about Copper or brass in the wild then lead. I think this is another anti-gun design to take firearms out of the hands of the many, cut the business down, and have only the rich with guns.
Mikey Idaho
Member
Ditto on the previous 2 posts, the Corbon DPX is great but way too dang expensive. Love the 180 or 200gr cast lead I carry in my Blackhawk 357 when I'm wandering the outdoors. Get copper down to the price of lead and it will gain in popularity haha.
MCgunner
Member
Also, for hunting, I don't need no stinkin' hollow point, DPX or otherwise. I like a good, heavy Keith SWC. I've killed a few deer and hogs with a cast, gas checked 165 grain bullet from a Lee mold. It's a 158 grain mold, but weighs 165 with gas check installed, the only copper on the bullet and that's just because of the hot load. (1470 fps out of my 6.5" blackhawk). The flat meplat of the SWC transfers plenty of energy and the lack of expansion insures adequate penetration on game. Hunting has different requirements than self defense.
And ditto on the "green ammo" and the gun grabbers. THAT is ALL there is to it. I even think the data on lead shot in the marshes for duck hunting is bogus, stupid, and a product of left wing fanatics and government bureaucrat control freaks. I've learned to live with steel shot laws, but that's where I draw the political line. It's a moronic law, anyway. I hunt doves in September/October with lead 7.5s perfectly legally, then have to switch to Steel Ts over the SAME DANGED FIELD when hunting geese in December???????? STUPID! All it's done is drive the cost of waterfowl hunting up and drive people away from the sport, but then, that's the political design of the law in the first place and it may well have been a political test bed for taking the lead out of handguns and rifles. I'd sure like to see 'em take the lead out of cap and ball revolvers....! With WHAT?
And ditto on the "green ammo" and the gun grabbers. THAT is ALL there is to it. I even think the data on lead shot in the marshes for duck hunting is bogus, stupid, and a product of left wing fanatics and government bureaucrat control freaks. I've learned to live with steel shot laws, but that's where I draw the political line. It's a moronic law, anyway. I hunt doves in September/October with lead 7.5s perfectly legally, then have to switch to Steel Ts over the SAME DANGED FIELD when hunting geese in December???????? STUPID! All it's done is drive the cost of waterfowl hunting up and drive people away from the sport, but then, that's the political design of the law in the first place and it may well have been a political test bed for taking the lead out of handguns and rifles. I'd sure like to see 'em take the lead out of cap and ball revolvers....
! With WHAT?
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Tony_the_tiger
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A very reactionary statement to my suggestion that copper bullets are better for you and better for the environment.
It is unfortunate you take this stance, lead poisoning is real and one of the unfortunate consequences of spending time at the range and working with lead bullets.
Shooters that have children or grandchildren at home need to be careful not to track lead dust back home on shoes and clothing, and to reduce lead exposure to their loved ones.
I think if you read up a little bit on lead you might change your tone. It mimics calcium and iron in the body and shows up in your bones, your teeth, and in your blood. It can damage the brain and nervous system and has been known to cause developmental issues as well.
As for the environment... a healthy land makes for healthy people. I prefer my water, fish, and meat to be as God intended, free of the extraneous components some men choose to contaminate them with.
Copper is not the be all end all of the health and environment debate, but it is an improvement over lead. Prices will come down, and there is alot to be said for copper bullet technology.
FYI, if you do work alot with lead, a diet high in calcium, iron, and vitamin c can prevent lead poisoning, but only to a degree. You may be interested in having a blood lead level test done just to get your personal results. Lead > 10 micrograms per decaliter in children and > 25 for adults is considered poisoning, although there is no scientifically accepted safe level, so any lead in the blood is a negative sign and potentially hazardous. Enjoying shooting as a sport and paying attention to your health are not conflicting practices.
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Never found lowly Hornady .38+nothing 158gr XTP load to be lacking. While lighter slug weight 'Critical Defense' proved very accurate it had considerably more flash out of 2" barrel.
wheelgunslinger
Member
Yep. Nothing wrong with using science to make us happier and healthier. Science gave us guns. And there's nothing manly about lead poisoning.
I use box ammo for carry and load my own hunting ammo, but really like the old Rem Core-Lokt cartridges.
Educate me on the potential of lead poisoning from shooting?
Most of the stuff I shoot is hard cast. The outside doesn't lead, or foul barrels.
Whats the issue? Even casting is mainly done from wheel weights, that have antimony in them, and other chemicals, that give you a hard surface on the outside.
Perhaps lead shot is pure lead?
Most of the stuff I shoot is hard cast. The outside doesn't lead, or foul barrels.
Whats the issue? Even casting is mainly done from wheel weights, that have antimony in them, and other chemicals, that give you a hard surface on the outside.
Perhaps lead shot is pure lead?
Tony_the_tiger
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Lead is a soft metal and our skin is permeable, so an exposure risk is present when handling bullets. Hardcast rounds are better for handling and tend to degrade slower, but the risk is still there. Firing the bullets can create lead dust and lead may be released when the bullet impacts the backstop. For most shooters, the largest risk may be the floor and ventilation systems of indoor shooting ranges. Some indoor ranges, even ones used by professional teams, have ventilation problems that result in the recirculation of contaminated air, which is then taken to the bloodstream directly by the lungs. Lead dust may be present on the ground of firing ranges, and then tracked back home on shoes, boots, and clothes. The main problem with lead is its tendency to turn into dust and to enter the body unseen. We still see lead poisoning cases today originating from contaminated soil near highways back when leaded gasoline was the norm.
There have been a few shooters on this board who came back from a random BLL (blood lead level) test and found out they were candidates for chelation therapy. Without knowing the specifics of the sources of lead you are working with, as well as your handling and shooting environment, it would be difficult for me to predict your exposure risks. I happen to be around infants quite a bit so I try to avoid the issue entirely.
The main idea between primary prevention of lead poisoning is to limit exposure at the source. Asking your doctor for a blood screen for lead would be a good place to start. Getting a test is inexpensive and the results should be back to you within a week or less - in some cases, instantaneously. If its high, then a re-evaluation of your shooting environment may be indicated. If its low, you're probably doing something right! On the other hand, since lead is so easily taken into bones and teeth, then released over periods of time back into the bloodstream, a second test after a few months might be a good idea.
Of course, shooting is not the only exposure risk. Houses built before 1978 often have lead paint in them and lead soldering on the plumbing, resulting in inhalation and consumption, respectively. Leaded crystal may be another source, as well as working with lead in an occupational setting, such as occurs frequently at autobodies, recycling plants, battery manufacturing, and a host of others.
My intent is not to demonize lead bullets entirely. I have quite a few copper plated lead hollowpoints in storage, as well as hardcast rounds. I also use an indoor shooting range. However, we should all be aware of the risks and take action if warranted.
Solutions for preventing lead poisoning and hearing loss at indoor firing ranges:
http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/blog/nsb051809_firingrange.html
NIOSH workplace safety and health topic: indoor ranges
http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/topics/ranges/
CDC: Lead: http://www.cdc.gov/nceh/lead/
Lead exposure from indoor firing ranges among students on shooting teams: http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5423a1.htm
Just so i'm not entirely off topic here, in response to the OP, the Corbon 110 gr DPX JHP is a solid .38 special +p round. Mike at Corbon sent me a photograph of that round running at 1055 ft/s on a chronograph out of a sub 2" snub, the S&W 442 (the gold dot 135 gr short barrel +p round runs at 860 ft/s as published by speer). Additionally, the round was featured in a review of .38 special rounds by brassfetcher, where it tested reasonably well in comparison to the other rounds, although all the rounds tested poorly - perhaps due to the bone simulant testing materials (http://www.brassfetcher.com/PDF/38 Special JHP performance through Bone Simulant plates.pdf)
Here is a personal pic of the 110 gr round (on the left) next to gold dots (right)
Both are fine rounds, although I really prefer something in .44 special or .357 magnum for urban carry.
Cheers,
-T
There have been a few shooters on this board who came back from a random BLL (blood lead level) test and found out they were candidates for chelation therapy. Without knowing the specifics of the sources of lead you are working with, as well as your handling and shooting environment, it would be difficult for me to predict your exposure risks. I happen to be around infants quite a bit so I try to avoid the issue entirely.
The main idea between primary prevention of lead poisoning is to limit exposure at the source. Asking your doctor for a blood screen for lead would be a good place to start. Getting a test is inexpensive and the results should be back to you within a week or less - in some cases, instantaneously. If its high, then a re-evaluation of your shooting environment may be indicated. If its low, you're probably doing something right! On the other hand, since lead is so easily taken into bones and teeth, then released over periods of time back into the bloodstream, a second test after a few months might be a good idea.
Of course, shooting is not the only exposure risk. Houses built before 1978 often have lead paint in them and lead soldering on the plumbing, resulting in inhalation and consumption, respectively. Leaded crystal may be another source, as well as working with lead in an occupational setting, such as occurs frequently at autobodies, recycling plants, battery manufacturing, and a host of others.
My intent is not to demonize lead bullets entirely. I have quite a few copper plated lead hollowpoints in storage, as well as hardcast rounds. I also use an indoor shooting range. However, we should all be aware of the risks and take action if warranted.
Solutions for preventing lead poisoning and hearing loss at indoor firing ranges:
http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/blog/nsb051809_firingrange.html
NIOSH workplace safety and health topic: indoor ranges
http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/topics/ranges/
CDC: Lead: http://www.cdc.gov/nceh/lead/
Lead exposure from indoor firing ranges among students on shooting teams: http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5423a1.htm
Just so i'm not entirely off topic here, in response to the OP, the Corbon 110 gr DPX JHP is a solid .38 special +p round. Mike at Corbon sent me a photograph of that round running at 1055 ft/s on a chronograph out of a sub 2" snub, the S&W 442 (the gold dot 135 gr short barrel +p round runs at 860 ft/s as published by speer). Additionally, the round was featured in a review of .38 special rounds by brassfetcher, where it tested reasonably well in comparison to the other rounds, although all the rounds tested poorly - perhaps due to the bone simulant testing materials (http://www.brassfetcher.com/PDF/38 Special JHP performance through Bone Simulant plates.pdf)
Here is a personal pic of the 110 gr round (on the left) next to gold dots (right)
Both are fine rounds, although I really prefer something in .44 special or .357 magnum for urban carry.
Cheers,
-T
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Super Sneaky Steve
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I carry Buffalo Bore 158 LSWCHP +P's in both my Smith 642 and Ruger SP101, but I'm working on a hand load to slightly edge it out as a midrange mag load.
MCgunner
Member
Spare me any health lectures. I've worked 35 years in the chemical industry and have been exposed to stuff (HCN, Vinyl Chloride, H2S, aromatic hydrocarbons just to name a few) that make lead bullets look like tootsie rolls. I've been shooting lead since the age of about 7 (Benjamin .22 caliber pellet rifle) and I shoot black powder, both cap and ball and caplock rifles which other than two of the rifles, cannot be fired with anything, BUT lead. I shoot tons of .22LR. I shoot Federal mostly, bulk pack, don't think they even make "green" .22 ammo and if they did, I wouldn't buy it, defeats the purpose of .22.
And, I've got a news flash for anyone that thinks there is ANY unpolluted land in the lower 48, THERE AIN'T. One cant even drink from mountain streams in Colorado for fear of giardia or even mercury contamination. What's a bullet in the scheme of things? Remember, I said I worked in chemical plants. You shoulda seen some of the things I saw in a 35 year career. Clean environment? Yeah, right, professor.
Lead is NOT a problem in bullets. If you think so, you've been reading left wing anti-gun propaganda picked up by HCI. Oh, sure, it can cause health problems. Some think maybe Nero was crazy cause, you see, Lead (plumbum, pb on the periodic table) was what Roman water piping was made of. But, short of THAT sort of exposure, or being in an non-vented closet while casting or something, I fear no lead other than that coming at me at high speed. Kiinda burns when it splatters on ya, but you can wear an apron for that.
And, I've got a news flash for anyone that thinks there is ANY unpolluted land in the lower 48, THERE AIN'T. One cant even drink from mountain streams in Colorado for fear of giardia or even mercury contamination. What's a bullet in the scheme of things?
Remember, I said I worked in chemical plants. You shoulda seen some of the things I saw in a 35 year career. Clean environment? Yeah, right, professor. Lead is NOT a problem in bullets. If you think so, you've been reading left wing anti-gun propaganda picked up by HCI. Oh, sure, it can cause health problems. Some think maybe Nero was crazy cause, you see, Lead (plumbum, pb on the periodic table) was what Roman water piping was made of. But, short of THAT sort of exposure, or being in an non-vented closet while casting or something, I fear no lead other than that coming at me at high speed. Kiinda burns when it splatters on ya, but you can wear an apron for that.
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Tony_the_tiger
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Death of a Child After Ingestion of a Metallic Charm --- Minnesota, 2006
http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm55d323a1.htm
Just saying, a lead .22 bullet could do some damage if ingested by a child.
With all due respect, MCgunner, despite your history of intense chemical exposure, I would prefer to avoid poisoning of any sort -including lead poisoning from shooting sports. As I said previously, there have been shooters here that required chelation therapy due to elevated blood lead levels. In fact, lead is quite capable of harming us, which is why I make a reasonable effort to avoid unnecessary exposures to it.
Best,
-T
http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm55d323a1.htm
Just saying, a lead .22 bullet could do some damage if ingested by a child.
With all due respect, MCgunner, despite your history of intense chemical exposure, I would prefer to avoid poisoning of any sort -including lead poisoning from shooting sports. As I said previously, there have been shooters here that required chelation therapy due to elevated blood lead levels. In fact, lead is quite capable of harming us, which is why I make a reasonable effort to avoid unnecessary exposures to it.
Best,
-T
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gunfreak11
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- Dec 10, 2011
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yada yada lead bad copper good. there is a reason lead is being used instead of the rest of the 92 odd other metals: its cheap, reliable, heavy and time tested.
there is a reason that a .50 bmg can throw a 750 gr bullet at 2,820 ft/s its the weight. no expert but wikipedia helps
btw .357 mag all the way
there is a reason that a .50 bmg can throw a 750 gr bullet at 2,820 ft/s its the weight. no expert but wikipedia helps
btw .357 mag all the way
doc2rn
Member
I use Hornandy's Critical Defense and Speer Gold Dot for the most part. Some keep blue/grey glazer safety slugs for home defense, but I dont think they are very practicle.
If you need to carry those "spare wheelies" might as well go with Safariland. Those can be carried in pocket w/o danger of cartridge---wheelie separation. When I see people buying them strips I'm ready to roll with laughter. I mean what are they going to say to "Glock Guy" please wait sir until I get chance to reload?Lead is a soft metal and our skin is permeable, so an exposure risk is present when handling bullets. Hardcast rounds are better for handling and tend to degrade slower, but the risk is still there. Firing the bullets can create lead dust and lead may be released when the bullet impacts the backstop. For most shooters, the largest risk may be the floor and ventilation systems of indoor shooting ranges. Some indoor ranges, even ones used by professional teams, have ventilation problems that result in the recirculation of contaminated air, which is then taken to the bloodstream directly by the lungs. Lead dust may be present on the ground of firing ranges, and then tracked back home on shoes, boots, and clothes. The main problem with lead is its tendency to turn into dust and to enter the body unseen. We still see lead poisoning cases today originating from contaminated soil near highways back when leaded gasoline was the norm.
There have been a few shooters on this board who came back from a random BLL (blood lead level) test and found out they were candidates for chelation therapy. Without knowing the specifics of the sources of lead you are working with, as well as your handling and shooting environment, it would be difficult for me to predict your exposure risks. I happen to be around infants quite a bit so I try to avoid the issue entirely.
The main idea between primary prevention of lead poisoning is to limit exposure at the source. Asking your doctor for a blood screen for lead would be a good place to start. Getting a test is inexpensive and the results should be back to you within a week or less - in some cases, instantaneously. If its high, then a re-evaluation of your shooting environment may be indicated. If its low, you're probably doing something right! On the other hand, since lead is so easily taken into bones and teeth, then released over periods of time back into the bloodstream, a second test after a few months might be a good idea.
Of course, shooting is not the only exposure risk. Houses built before 1978 often have lead paint in them and lead soldering on the plumbing, resulting in inhalation and consumption, respectively. Leaded crystal may be another source, as well as working with lead in an occupational setting, such as occurs frequently at autobodies, recycling plants, battery manufacturing, and a host of others.
My intent is not to demonize lead bullets entirely. I have quite a few copper plated lead hollowpoints in storage, as well as hardcast rounds. I also use an indoor shooting range. However, we should all be aware of the risks and take action if warranted.
Solutions for preventing lead poisoning and hearing loss at indoor firing ranges:
http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/blog/nsb051809_firingrange.html
NIOSH workplace safety and health topic: indoor ranges
http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/topics/ranges/
CDC: Lead: http://www.cdc.gov/nceh/lead/
Lead exposure from indoor firing ranges among students on shooting teams: http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5423a1.htm
Just so i'm not entirely off topic here, in response to the OP, the Corbon 110 gr DPX JHP is a solid .38 special +p round. Mike at Corbon sent me a photograph of that round running at 1055 ft/s on a chronograph out of a sub 2" snub, the S&W 442 (the gold dot 135 gr short barrel +p round runs at 860 ft/s as published by speer). Additionally, the round was featured in a review of .38 special rounds by brassfetcher, where it tested reasonably well in comparison to the other rounds, although all the rounds tested poorly - perhaps due to the bone simulant testing materials (http://www.brassfetcher.com/PDF/38 Special JHP performance through Bone Simulant plates.pdf)
Here is a personal pic of the 110 gr round (on the left) next to gold dots (right)
Both are fine rounds, although I really prefer something in .44 special or .357 magnum for urban carry.
Cheers,
-T
Tony_the_tiger
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I prefer to standardize my equipment, and safariland does not offer a product for my 5 shot .44 special...
Lucky Derby
Member
Of the loads listed, I like the Golden Sabres.
My favorite +P .38 is the Buffalo Bore 158gr LSWCHP.
I reality, I would shoot them all and see which the gun liked better.
My favorite +P .38 is the Buffalo Bore 158gr LSWCHP.
I reality, I would shoot them all and see which the gun liked better.
MCgunner
Member
I've heard of folks dying from ingesting excessive amounts of dihydrogen oxide, too. I think that should be banned. More folks are killed by dihydrogen oxide than any other element or compound.
If you ain't hit the target in 6 rounds, perhaps you need to be carrying a Glock. Me, I cannot reload with ANYTHING, even MOON CLIPS as fast as I can my bottom feeders. My last name is NOT Miculek (before someone posts that vid). I often carry in speed strips because it's easier and I often carry HKS speedloaders because I had a safariland comp one fail on me less than a year from purchase, had to be cut open with a dremel tool to get my rounds out of it. If that happened in a fight, I'd be going for back up for sure. Oh, I always have SOME sort of NY reload on me, but the idea is, for me, by the time I need a reload I'll be behind cover or the BG will be disabled. Another reason I like speed strips is that I can put a couple of 'em in a belt sheath loaded with .38 +P FBI loads and they'll feed either my 5 shot snubby back up or my 6 shot .357 primary. No confusion, reload either gun.
I do carry bottom feeders a lot, but don't feel unarmed with my snubby .38 and 158 grain LSWCHP +P ammo. I figure to give the BG lead poisoning before I need a reload.
If you ain't hit the target in 6 rounds, perhaps you need to be carrying a Glock. Me, I cannot reload with ANYTHING, even MOON CLIPS as fast as I can my bottom feeders. My last name is NOT Miculek (before someone posts that vid). I often carry in speed strips because it's easier and I often carry HKS speedloaders because I had a safariland comp one fail on me less than a year from purchase, had to be cut open with a dremel tool to get my rounds out of it. If that happened in a fight, I'd be going for back up for sure. Oh, I always have SOME sort of NY reload on me, but the idea is, for me, by the time I need a reload I'll be behind cover or the BG will be disabled. Another reason I like speed strips is that I can put a couple of 'em in a belt sheath loaded with .38 +P FBI loads and they'll feed either my 5 shot snubby back up or my 6 shot .357 primary. No confusion, reload either gun.
I do carry bottom feeders a lot, but don't feel unarmed with my snubby .38 and 158 grain LSWCHP +P ammo. I figure to give the BG lead poisoning before I need a reload.
Tony_the_tiger
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I would like to see an expanded product line from safari land.
MCgunner, I never suggested anything related to gun control or lead regulation in this thread, I only stated fact - copper is better than lead for personal health and for the environment. As I stated in my original post, the X bullets have an impressive performance record, and I would like to see more shooters voluntarily make the choice to move away from lead. Lead is cheap and abundant- that much is true! Hopefully, corbon, BB, and other manufacturers using alternative bullet technologies can find a way to bring the costs down.
MCgunner, I never suggested anything related to gun control or lead regulation in this thread, I only stated fact - copper is better than lead for personal health and for the environment. As I stated in my original post, the X bullets have an impressive performance record, and I would like to see more shooters voluntarily make the choice to move away from lead. Lead is cheap and abundant- that much is true! Hopefully, corbon, BB, and other manufacturers using alternative bullet technologies can find a way to bring the costs down.
MCgunner
Member
Well, it IS the same argument used by the Brady bunch, so I just took you a little differently. But, until I can get free copper and cast free bullets with it, I'll use my lead for practice. I sure wouldn't get much practice having to shoot Corbon. I normally put 50 to 100 rounds a session in each of my carries when I practice with my carries. I shoot black powder a lot, cap and ball, and of course, can't shoot anything, BUT lead in those. Don't think there's any magic green ammo for .22 either, and .22s are fun BECAUSE they're cheap and you don't have to save the brass.
Now, as for getting copper cheaper, don't count on that. Steel shot hasn't gotten anywhere as cheap as lead shot in waterfowl loads and they sell one heck of a lot more of 'em. Some rich yahoos shoot hevishot and even bismuth, great if you're Bill Gates, but I'm poor white trash, myself. Ain't no duck on the planet worth five to eight bucks a round.
Glad I've at least got steel for an alternative there. It's bad enough. I do get to dove hunt with lead, so I guess I can thank God for that much. I do a lot more shootin' at doves than ducks.
Tony_the_tiger
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Eight bucks for fried squirrel/dove is pretty steep
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