Your HD Gun Patterning Statistics

[A Cleaner]

I see that there is a sticky on how to pattern. Really enjoyed it. Kudos to you, Dave.

I would be interested to know how tightly everyone's on-hand home defense shotgun/shotshell combo patterns. If enough respond, it should yield some interesting and useful statistical info. Try to list all pertinent info. For example:

1. Brand/model, chamber, capacity
2. Barrel length
3. Choke, if any
4. Sighting
5. Any mods relevant to patterning performance
6. Load kept in/with gun
7. Condition in which your gun is kept for HD
7. Patterning results, including distance

I may have overlooked some so feel free to fill in the blanks. Also, it would be interesting to post pics of said HD shotgun. I will post mine when I get my camera back.

I realize that questions 1-4 deal with strong opinions and can spark debates. Definitely not looking to start or re-hash any debates. Also, at first glance, this may seem like a review of "old news" for many. However, I believe that if we can consistently link infor from Q's 1-4 with accurate patterning statistics, we'd really have something of value. I believe this information is vital for the responsible and effective defense of one's home. Any external sources of such information would be appreciated but please don't let it stop you from weighing in on this survey. Thanks, in advance to all who participate. Here's my info:

1. Remington 870 Express HD, 12g, 6+1
2. 18" bbl
3. No choke - cylinder bore
4. Front brass bead only
5. No relevant mods
6. Remington Reduced Recoil 00 Buck
7. Empty chamber, 3 in tube, safety off
8. At 7yds, 5 shots taken (3 separate-different target & 2 consecutive-same target). All shots put all 8 pellets inside 8". The two consecutives were shot to test accuracy of follow-up and I'm happy to report that they shared the same 8" circle.

 

[A Cleaner]

Just so you know...

...I have seen the post labeled "What is in your HD shotgun now?" It's excellent. Very good info. That's exactly the kind of stuff I'm looking for but with a strong correlation to patterning stats.

 

[sm]

I use a bone stock pump gun with slugs.

I'm getting too damn old and my eyes are not what they once were to be counting pellets and using a a ruler. I paid my dues with patterning, counting pellets and load testing. I've put over 200k rds ( yes you read that right) in one Shotgun alone in 12 ga alone.

I practice "mellon shots" from "here" to "out yonder". I'm talking 6" pie plates, grapefruits, reactive targets.

Life experiences have taught me some lessons. Some punk wants to fire shots in my direction using a trash can for "concealment" - I'm going thru the trash can to stop that threat.

Don't care what the flowered shirted guy wrote, don't care what is the fad is, don't care what the mall ninja's use...


Nice to get old and not give a damn anymore. Gimme slugs, I can see that hole, and I can still count to "one".

Reprobate - done seen my elephants, don't care to see anymore.

Right now I am pissed because where I am - someone removed the slugs and inserted #3 buck in this here 20 ga...very pissed indeed.

Excuse me- gotta find the 20 ga slugs...

 

[Fred Fuller]

1. Brand/model, chamber, capacity
Remington 870 Express Magnum 3" w/2-round TacStar extension, phosphate refinished, plain walnut police gun furniture
2. Barrel length
20"
3. Choke, if any
Aftermarket RemChoke tubes installed, MOD tube in place
4. Sighting
Factory rifle sights with aftermarket tritium inserts
5. Any mods relevant to patterning performance
Forcing cone extended a bit, bore mirror polished
6. Load kept in/with gun
5 rounds of old style Estate low recoil 00 buck in magazine, 4 more plus 2 KO slugs in SideSaddle
7. Condition in which your gun is kept for HD
Hammer down on (double checked) empty chamber, safety on, magazine loaded
7. Patterning results, including distance
Reliable 6" patterns at 25 yards, smaller patterns closer in

lpl/nc

 

[Dave McCracken]

1950 Remington 870 with barrel shortened to 18"+ a skosh. No choke. Peep sight, S/S, 2 shot extension, long cone. Kept Cruiser Ready.

Estate R/R 00, the old load, goes 16-20" at 25 yards. Most pellets fall into 12".

With Fed Classic 00 or Winchester LE generic, 20-24" at 25 yards.most pellets inside 15" or so.

 

[HSMITH]

Rem 870 express, Krylon Extra Shabby camo, 28" barrel with 8 shot extension, single bead, kept cruiser ready with a Hastings IC choke screwed in. The first 3 on tap are Winchester Magnum OO buck, followed by four Winchester one ounce rifled slugs.

With the buck most pellets are inside of a foot at 30 yards, with the slugs anything inside 75 yards is in real trouble, 100 yards if I can see a decent piece of them.

No sights, sling, sidesaddle, lights or anything else. I have put tens of thousands of rounds through this gun, it is looking where I am looking.

 

[Gordon]

Geez which one?
Under bed my side- The A-5, 19" rifle sights 4 000 Rem Buck in tube cruiser ready with a 5 watt LED light on my home grown rail , 13" stock.
Under bed wife's side- 20 ga Ithaca 37 Ultra light Deer slayer, cruiser ready with 4 #3 buck in tube, 12 3/4" stock with Limbsaver pad. In "reinforced" walk in closet in bed room : Remington 1100 custom full on "3 gun" style from the 80's with 19" barrel IC tube and an ANPVS-4 sight on a Pic rail and a laser IR illuminator under the 7 round tube. cruiser ready with first round 000 and the other 5 in tube Breneke slugs.
In safe: my Robar 870, a 40 year old Magnum wingmaster re- done by Robar in the 80's, Now with Surefire 9volt foreend and a 6 round side saddle full of -more Rem low recoil slugs. Cruiser ready and full of Remington low recoil slugs which just printed 6" 100 meter groups at a couple shotgun training courses. This is my ' go into harms way' gun if I have a chance to saddle up!
Hidden in secret place up high in den: 10 ga. AYA 'coach gun' with 54pellet #4 Buck loads in case someone busts in while I'm watching TV!
in spare bed room behind computor (next to me now): A Benelli Nova 12ga "tactical" with m-3 Illuminator and 5 Federal 1 1/4oz slugs in mag cruiser ready, I have this gun rigged with a single point and hang it on a peg in the walk in bedroom closet after I make my final rounds for the night, it comes iback out after supper if I hang out in the spare bedroom on PC instead of TV.

The Browning A-5 prints 8 000 buck into 12" at 25 yards, fist size groups under 15 yards.
The race gun 1100 does better with buck and with slugs will do under ideal conditions almost like a rifle to 100 yards, it is used for varmints after my livestock at night.
The AYA scatters them all over south 40 BUT at the 30' limits inside my house all 54 pellets are gonna hit ya!
the Benelli is wonderfully accurate with slugs, I just wish I could cut down the too long stock! My wife's 20ga shoots 8" patterns of #3buck at 15yards.
Oh I keep a folding stock 870 magnum with night sites locked in a 1/4" plate cabinet (with an m-1 carbine) in my motorhome.It has Rem low recoil slugs in it and does well enough! It is my traveling gun because it fits in a suitcase!
The rest of the shotties , except the .410 in the barn, are locked in safes.

 

[357wheelgunner]

The sisters are a Remington 870 Police Magnum and a Remington 870 Wingmaster, made sometime in the late '70s. The only thing different is the trigger pull (the WM is far superior to the police), the finish (WM blued and Police parkerized) and the quality of the wood stocks (WM wood is much much better). They both have 20" IC rifle sighted barrels, both have a mag extension (8 rounds on board), and both shoot extremely well.

Remington R/R slugs shoot into a 3 leaf clover at 25 yards, standing in slow fire. If I shoot as fast as I can shuck shells the group opens up to about 6 or 8 inches, extremely well for me.

With Remington R/R OO 8 pellet buckshot they both shoot about 12 inch patterns at 15 yards, and around 20" at 25 yards. This is the best patterning load I have found and it feels like shooting birdshot on my end. I also use S&B 12 pellet OO buck sometimes, that patterns much faster. At 15 yards it opens up to about 20" and at 25 yards the pattern is around 36"+.

 

[A Cleaner]

Awesome Replies!

Glad to see so many ready to participate rather than mock the idea. Gotta admit, it kinda gives me a feeling of peace knowing that there are others who take HD seriously and also appreciate the importance of patterning. Thanks again, guys. Keep'm comin'.

 

[sm]

Since I also like slugs...I also cheat.

I do this "cheating" with handguns and rifles too...

I take a pc of cardboard and cut out a circle say for slugs 6" , this goes on a target stand - if I "miss" I see a hole, If I "hit" - I don't.

I use smaller circles for whatever platforms and such I am shooting. Aim small - miss small. Beats the heck out of walking back and forth and changing targets.

Got a lid off a 55 gal drum , got a 6" circle cut in the middle if I miss I hear it...saves having to reach for the binocs...

I believe in Simple and working smarter - not harder.

$1 can of Dollar General Spray paint covers the "misses" on that 1 1/2" pc of steel I use at another place to shoot slugs...usually can get some younger person to do that...Why do you think we invite the kids to come shoot?

Kids gotta learn to use spray paint safely somehow - don't they?

Big believer in really thick reactive targets too...Ya'll can walk back and forth and wear out soles of shoes if you want too...

 

[JohnBT]

I'm still using an 870 and an 1100. I leave the IC tubes in and have one loaded with buck and one with slugs - or vice versa. Of course, if it's duck or goose season one might be loaded with Hevi-shot.

The longest shot in my house is about 11 yards, so I don't expect much of a pattern (and I'll likely be using a handgun or two anyway.) I keep saying that one of these days I'm going to get an 18" or 20" barrel, but so far the 28-inchers seem adequate for what I need.

Holler before you come up, I'll be at the top of the stairs. And do watch out for that bucketful of marbles I spilled on the steps.

John

 

[Nnobby45]

My shotgun is a new Scattergun Tech/Wison Standard model, with SureFire fore-end and 2 rd mag. ext., bored cyl.

Federal LE 132-00 with FliteControl wad (new)
10yds ---------------1.5 in.
15----------------3 in.
20----------------3 3/4"X 2 1/4"
25----------------6X4"
30----------------9.5X6
These figures are not a misprint. The new Fed. Tac with incorporated FliteControl wad shoots tight. Shotgun choke makes little difference, since it's the wad that controls the pattern. The wad slips off the shot a little downrange, and then the shot begins to spread. This load may be effective to 40 yds!

Federal LE132 000, LE 133 00 (8pellet load) and Original LE132 00 Tactical buck, along with Winchester Ranger LE low recoil were all fairly similar with some differences in size. All Federal loads have plated shot. The Win. Ranger LE does not.

Shown here is Federal LE 132 000 buck.

10yds---about 7 in.
15------about the same. (10 pattern includes some flyers)
20------about 11.5 in.

Original Federal Tactical LE 132-00 (without FliteControl)

10 yds-----5"
15---------8"
20-------- 9"
25yds-----15"

Federal began to incorporate the FliteControl wad into their Tactical line last year because Police shotguns are usually Cyl, or IC, and need the xtra range. The new FliteControl amounts to a Vangcomp in a shell, in my opinion. If it has a fault, it may be too tight for indoor close range applications. Hornady TAP also has a high tech wad that produces xtra tight patterns. I'll test it when I can get some.

 

[Bob F.]

870 Express HD (late model) 3" chamber, 18" cyl bore, 4 rd mag.
ramped front bead.
Kept w/ 4 rds Hornady TAP 00, hammer-down on empty chamber, safety off. 2 slugs, handful of birdshot nearby (I live "in the country", coyote could show up at edge of woods, etc.). ONLY mods:QD sling and polished action (not enough use, yet).

Hornady TAP 00 puts all 9 pellets on a sheet of typing paper at 15 yds (about 8" pattern). Fed Premium #4 27 pellet covers a "Paladin" target @15 yds.

If someone pops rounds at me, 1st shot better count and/or they best be behind HEAVY cover.

I like sm's cheating tech, too.

Stay safe.
Bob

 

[A Cleaner]

Thanks again, guys.

Some of those groups are very impressive. I have a follow up question for all: Where have you found the best deals on tight grouping 00 buck reduced recoil rounds (i.e. Hornady TAP, Remington Managed Recoil, Federal Tac., etc)? I don't know about everyone else's experiences but here in Hoosier country, most places don't carry it and the ones that do charge far too much. Any input is greatly appreciated.

 

[226]

I have a follow up question for all: Where have you found the best deals on tight grouping 00 buck reduced recoil rounds (i.e. Hornady TAP, Remington Managed Recoil, Federal Tac., etc)?

Try ammoman.com, free shipping.

 

[Nnobby45]

The Federal Tactical with FliteControl wad, I got at a Reno Gunshow a little over a month ago. The Winchester Ranger LE 00 buck and Federal 8 and 9 pellet 00 buck, and 000 buck came from Ammoman.

I don't know if Federal intends to incorporate the FliteControl into their entire line of Tactical ammo, or just the LE 00 buck, but more of it should be showing up when the older stocks are gone. For outdoor work, the "tight stuff" should be great. For indoors, the current Tactical ammo should be fine, whether it's Winchester Ranger, Remington 8 pellet loads, or Federal Tactical 8 and 9 pellet 00, or 000 buck.

The new Hornady TAP (tactical application Police) ammo is also very tight shooting. The low recoil buck loads were an improvement over standard velocity buck loads and tightened up patterns considerably. The new Federal FliteControl ammo and the Hornady TAP tighten things up even more.

The FliteControl wad compared to original Federal Tac. There're a couple extra pellets in the pan. It's a nine pellet load. All of the Fed. loads utilize plated shot for more penetration and tighter patterns than lead. The FliteControl wad is the same as has been used in Fed.'s Turkey load for tight patterns.

Attached pattern testing is in Yards!

 

[Al Thompson]

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=121431

Good info at TFL.

 

[A Cleaner]

Thanks, Al.

I just knew there had to be a thread similar to this one! I wouldn't dare imagine that I was the first one with the idea. I do hope that others will still continue to submit more info to this thread...can never know too much about the important stuff. There is indeed some great info in that link. Thanks again for the reference.

 

[pangris]

My remmy 11-87 police patterns slugs into about 3" at 25 yards. I don't know why I shoot slug guns better than my AR but I do...

Paul