Your opinion on felons owning guns?

[DustyGmt]

Someone who cheated on taxes, or made a stupid decision a long time ago (especially without malicious intent) shouldn't necessarily forfeit a constitutional right for life. Someone with a history of robbery or assault with weapons, or a jacket with predatory criminal behavior is way different than someone who got into a bar fight years ago and got the book thrown at him/her, or had a substance abuse problem at one time and got caught with something in his/her pocket but is now "clean". I have a close friend who after his 4 years in the 82d airborne (with a couple of combat deployments) was honorably discharged and drank too much. He was DWI, and tried to run from the cops in Idaho. He ended up crashing- no damage to anyone else's property or injuries. Now he won't touch alcohol, but he is a felon- who has finished culinary school and is a very accomplished chef at a high end restaurant. His wife is a lawyer specializing in international law. Based on his criminal history, he can't own a firearm.
Something else to think about- our elected officials have decided that these people have served their punishment, and no longer pose a threat to the point they are released and "free". At one time, they couldn't get a driver's license or vote- now they are able to get a CDL and in some cases are voting while still locked up. Why are only SOME of their rights being restored? There are people who were granted waivers for felonies and allowed to join the military (where there are lots of guns) during the late unpleasantness, when enlistment numbers were down. In many cases, these people got their act together, and served honorably- often in combat.
I guess my point is that it is a complex issue that probably shouldn't be addressed with a "1 size fits all" approach, like so many other things our government addresses in similar ways. I checked the 2nd amendment, and I didn't see anything about felons, or the word "except" anywhere in it.

This is basically my thoughts as well. Taking someone's rights away is a very serious thing and I understand more than most that when you're young, mistakes get made. I applaud and admire people who have lived good wholesome lives and never broke the law in their life but just think about that one guy who was out of line and insulted your wife at the bar and how bad you wanted to punch him. Had you done it, do you think you would feel an equal measure of justice was given to you if your RKBA was revoked as a result?

People need to be given second chances. Maybe not 3rds and 4ths and 5ths and obviously some crimes should go without saying. Punishment just needs to be more measured and proportional.

 

[whughett]

This is nowhere near always true. Their have been entire books written to explain how most Americans commit multiple felonies a day, without even knowing it.

That said, and to your point, the overwhelming majority of the people in prison didn’t unknowingly commit a felony.

Please explain how MOST Americans commit multiple felonies daily with out even knowing it. What felonies can one commit with out knowing a felony was committed. No snarky comments please just don’t understand the statement.

 

[CherokeeGunslinger]

You are the one who said one time offenders should get their guns back but not repeat offenders. I do understand why killing one person is ok but not two.

Here, clearly stated, My position is those convicted of Rape, Murder, Child Molestation should be immediately taken out and summarily executed, no appeals. How that! If you cannot be trusted to be out in society then you forfeit your existence in society.[/QUOTE]
I don't agree with "no appeals" or "summarily executed" but I do like the rest of this.

 

[LiveLife]

Felons have serious judgement problems often in combination with other issues.

I think you are using a broad all inclusive brush to group all felons to be "dangerous" to society to not be allowed to own firearms for self defense.

My posts address the non-violent felons who paid their debt to society by serving time in prison and no longer "dangerous" to society ... I did clarify violent felons being another issue, which is in agreement with your post.

However, if you were violent and still deemed violent by society, well ... there's that.

My view of "non-violent" felons who served their time/debt to society and no longer danger to society being able to exercise Second Amendment right to self defense is similar to Justice Amy Barret's dissent for Kanter v Barr where she expressed guns should be taken from felons who "threaten public safety" but not from non-violent felons - http://media.ca7.uscourts.gov/cgi-b...78:J:Barrett:dis:T:fnOp:N:2309276:S:0#page=27

"... none of these rationales supports the proposition that the legislature can permanently deprive felons of the right to possess arms simply because of their status as felons. The historical evidence does, however, support a different proposition: that the legislature may disarm those who have demonstrated a proclivity for violence or whose possession of guns would otherwise threaten the public safety."​

 

[kmw1954]

Here, clearly stated, My position is those convicted of Rape, Murder, Child Molestation should be immediately taken out and summarily executed, no appeals. How that! If you cannot be trusted to be out in society then you forfeit your existence in society.

I don't agree with "no appeals" or "summarily executed" but I do like the rest of this.[/QUOTE]

See I can be as absurd as the next person and do it with a straight face. Notice how not a single one of them have responded to my question about whether drunk drivers killing people should be charged for Murder!

This was a productive conversation at one point but has now deteriorated to meaningless chatter. I'm finished here.

 

[CherokeeGunslinger]

See I can be as absurd as the next person and do it with a straight face. Notice how not a single one of them have responded to my question about whether drunk drivers killing people should be charged for Murder!

This was a productive conversation at one point but has now deteriorated to meaningless chatter. I'm finished here.

Agreed. I've had my share of strawmen and emotional immaturity for the day in this thread. Folks just can't seem to get along or stop judging others. It's sad.

I appreciate your insistence on being mature and polite. Happy trails, friend.

 

[Howland937]

I don't think I can agree with a complete restoration of all rights upon completion of sentence. I'm not vehemently opposed to restoring gun rights to convicted felons, generally speaking...but that's because I'm of the opinion that certain people who've committed certain crimes have no redeeming qualities and should never see light of day again. But they do sometimes...and those people should never be able to possess a gun. I guess there are just situations where second chances should never be considered.

If an offender is convicted by a jury of their peers, then it should also be a committee of their peers who decide whether their rights are fully restored or not. Not a judge or politician or professional athlete.

 

[Lnf Crzr]

If my memory serves me correct…A Muzzleloader, Black powder doesn’t fall under this category in many states (Check local and state) Just a FYI.

Can change out a Cylinder pretty quickly… sorta.
And if it’s before 1836…. I think it’s considered different as well.

Don’t quote me on finer details

Just saying- Limitations have limits.

 

[Atavar]

I think I am done with this thread. It is just getting silly. People are moving to absurd arguments just to argue.
It is really quite simple and basic. People who commit violent crimes have proven they have no self control and should not have legal access to firearms.
People who prove themselves willing to use a firearm in the commission of a crime should never have legal access to firearms.
People who then illegally use firearms in the commission of a crime should be taken out of society permanently as they have proven they have no respect for our rules.
I feel no pity for the loss of rights for broken or aberrant humans.
Mic drop.

 

[LiveLife]

If my memory serves me correct…A Muzzleloader, Black powder doesn’t fall under this category in many states (Check local and state) Just a FYI.

I do not believe this thread is discussing "work around" rather "restoring" 2A gun rights to felons (non-violent) who have served their time and repaid their debt to society.

With Justice Barrett who supported that notion in her dissent for Kanter v Barr now on the Supreme Court, we just may see that play out during our lifetime.

 

[Lnf Crzr]

I was simply stating the Law.

And last time I checked, Lawbreakers don’t follow the Law.

Yet if a Person was innocent or made a mistake, payed for mistake-was not a violent one (That can happen), had a felonious charge and wanted to still hunt or protect his family while following the Laws set by the state…. just saying.

I do not believe this thread is discussing "work around" rather "restoring" 2A gun rights to felons (non-violent) who have served their time and repaid their debt to society.

 

[DeepSouth]

Please explain how MOST Americans commit multiple felonies daily with out even knowing it. What felonies can one commit with out knowing a felony was committed. No snarky comments please just don’t understand the statement.

Well, to be clear, I never said it was true that “MOST Americans commit multiple felonies daily with out even knowing it” I don’t really know if it is or not. I wouldn’t be surprised either way to be honest.

I do believe it to be true that most people aren’t familiar enough with the law to know what constitutes a felony and what doesn’t, I believe that’s normally found out AFTER the act was committed… “what am I charged with?” Is probably the top question people have when/after being arrested, followed buy them wondering what the consequences will be.

How many DUI’s make a felony, I doubt most people know until they reach the magic number.
How many bad checks make a felony, again, I doubt most people know until they reach the magic number.

When people pick up hitchhikers they don’t normally search them before they get it so who know what they’re transporting.


But if you really want to understand the “most people commit felonies everyday” comment then just google it. I can’t really summarize what I’m not even sure is true and I’ve never studied. Their have, as I stated, literally been entire books devoted to it, and I think I recall a John Stossel YouTube video.

At one time, not long ago in Ala. law it was a felony to give a minor a handgun, no exceptions. I was told there were also conflicting laws on the books, so who knows… which is kind of the point. So I technically may have committed a felony hundreds of times just shooting with my kids. This law was corrected about 10ish years ago.
Just think of the grey areas in the NFA, is it really that hard to imagine breaking a law and not knowing it? Put A vertical fore grip where only an angled one should be……felony.

 

[LiveLife]

I was simply stating the Law.

if a Person ... still hunt or protect his family while following the Laws set by the state

I understand felons can legally possess black powder guns (with varying processes/documents required by state) and they can also hunt with bow and arrow.

But I do not believe that's the primary focus of this thread discussion which is felons being allowed to possess "conventional" smokeless powder cartridge guns for self defense.

 

[Deanimator]

please back up your statements with evidence of people in positions of authority doing that. Or are you just saying things to raise rabble?

Kyle Rittenhouse

 

[alsaqr]

Federal law has a provision for felons to appeal for re-instatement of their 2nd Amendment rights. That provision of federal law was defunded after felons with their gun rights re-instated went on to commit violent crimes.

BTW: Alan Gottlieb is a convicted felon. His gun rights were re-instated.

 

[Lnf Crzr]

I understand felons can legally possess black powder guns (with varying processes/documents required by state) and they can also hunt with bow and arrow.

But I do not believe that's the primary focus of this thread discussion which is felons being allowed to possess "conventional" smokeless powder cartridge guns for self defense.

Title of thread is “Guns” Not -Smokeless or Semi auto, black powder or single action.

I was discussing a point that had not been brought up- And the laws associated with the point.

I’m Sorry if your interpretation of the Thread is different than mine, Yet that’s ok because this IS a “discussion” of the thread topic and Can have “various points”.

 

[LiveLife]

Title of thread is “Guns” Not -Smokeless or Semi auto, black powder or single action.

I’m Sorry if your interpretation of the Thread is different than mine, Yet that’s ok because this IS a “discussion” of the thread topic and Can have “various points”.

I get your point. Perhaps OP can clarify what the meaning of "guns/firearm" used in the OP was.

Mainly just talking about your average working class man with a family that got locked up for something like drug charges in his younger days.

Do you guys know people like that with guns? Almost every felon I know owns at least one firearm.

 

[LiveLife]

BTW, for those who didn't catch the OP, I took the thread discussion as non-violent felon who is now living a productive life raising a family who made a mistake in his younger days.

Mainly just talking about your average working class man with a family that got locked up for something like drug charges in his younger days.

 

[Lnf Crzr]

I certainly understand your point. You have stated it clearly. Yet Perhaps you can try and understand- “Another” side to the subject and not disregard. As previously stated- it’s a discussion. I took the OP as… Its as a honest guy who made a mistake , now raising a family and wants to be “Law abiding”. Yet still wants to protect his family or hunt. Hence my Statements.

I get your point. Perhaps OP can clarify what the meaning of "guns/firearm" used in the OP was.

​

 

[LiveLife]

Perhaps you can try and understand- “Another” side to the subject and not disregard ... As previously stated- it’s a discussion. I took the OP as… Its as a honest guy who made a mistake , now raising a family and wants to be “Law abiding”. Yet still wants to protect his family or hunt. Hence my Statements.

Based on OP's posts, I took it that we were talking about city life drug dealing felon who served time in his younger days now working and raising a family needing gun for protection from city criminals. That's why I posted that perhaps OP can clarify whether we are talking about defensive smokeless powder cartridge based gun or black powder gun for hunting.

Living in the hood, people out here with guns that shouldn't have them is just common knowledge.

Just a general question if anyone else has seen the same thing out there.

Well yeah...people that don't follow laws aren't gonna follow gun laws. That's kinda the point to this.

I don't know. Some people grow up without direction and they make mistakes early in life ... People that a make a living off of pushing drugs...they're worthless. I can't put a kid with nothing trying to survive early in life in that same category. It's a lot more forgivable in my book than someone like Martha Stuart that already had everything and still wanted to get one over.

 

[rust collector]

All been said. Time to retire.