Your own ammo tests

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9mmforMe

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We all know that product marketing can differ greatly from actual performance, with that in mind:

Has anyone done any testing of modern hollow point expansion and penetration? If you have or have been a first hand witness to such testing let us know your results.

Thanks
 
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I explodinate water jugs on a regular basis, I'm planning some multi-jug explosions as soon as the ground freezes and I can drive to the backstop without destroying my conservation club's outdoor range.

I assume you are aware of the box o truth and brassfetcher?
I think their testing is pretty straightforward and neutral, I check there for baseline data and then worry more about feeding reliability for my own tests.
 
Hey BFD :)

Yeah I go to those sites...good info.

I would be interested in your findings when you get a chance to set everything up.
 
I have done quite a bit of testing of 45ACP hollow point ammo. Over half of the brands out there do not expand at all if fired through cloth (and that's with a 5" barrel). Lately I have done most of my testing with my G30 because that is what I usually carry, and not many brands out there will expand if fired through cloth from a shorter barrel. I have tried Winchester Ranger T 230gr (standard and +P), Speer Gold Dot 230 gr and 185 gr, Golden Saber 230 gr, Winchester PDX1 230 gr, Federal Hydrashok 230 gr, Winchester SXT 230 gr, Cor-Bon 230 gr, PMC Starfire 230 gr, Hornady Critical Defense 185 gr, and Taurus 185 gr (Barnes copper). The only ones to perform flawlessly, with absolutely consistent expansion, when fired through cloth from a short barrel (3.78" G30) are the Gold Dot and Critical Defense. All others either did not expand at all or were inconsistent. Going to a 5" barrel, the Winchester Ranger, Taurus copper, and Golden Saber move into the good category, too. If you want pictures of the results, I can dig them up.

I just got my hands on some Federal HST 230 gr (standard pressure) so I will be testing them soon.
 
I would be interested in your findings when you get a chance to set everything up.
Click to expand...
How about you come over and help lug jugs and tables? You can bring cloth, if desired ... I just have a few old pairs of pants to sacrifice.

There's a reason I'm not doing this until I can drive on the grass, dragging full jugs 150 yards gets old, and filling them from the pond takes all day while only saving me 75 yards or so.

Plus, I'll be shooting guns, not film ... and the best camera in the household is my phone (Moto Droid, actually not too shabby for youtube-quality video)
Anyone who wants to help with this project is welcome, I'll probably gear up in a week off I've got starting 14JAN ... things should be frozen hard by then, room temp jugs should stay non-frozen for a few hours, I think.
 
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While its great fun exploding water jugs, etc. I don't bother with any JHP tests for the simple reason that bullet placement is way more important than actual bullet caliber or type. Bullet placement, placement, & penetration are the three most important things about handgun bullet effectiveness.

When I need more carry ammo I buy large amounts of whatever is "on-sale" when I need more. My carry guns are all fine with Winchester SXT, Remignton Golden Saber, Gold Dot, and Hydrashok so that is what I choose from unless another brand's price is compelling.

I don't much care what is in the gun as long as I'm confident in its function, I'm counting on regular practice allowing me to put what ever bullet I happen to have in the right place if the time ever comes.
 
I don't much care what is in the gun as long as I'm confident in its function
Click to expand...

Same here, I just like blowing stuff up. I've got some rifle stuff I want to compare to cheapo ball while I'm at it.

And the most important things about terminal ballistics are Placement, Depth, and Width ... in that order.
But I can test Depth in water and other mediums, I didn't intend to do fancy measuring of the expanded bullets, if I'm feeling froggy I'll take photos of them on graph paper and/or next to a ruler.
 
If a HP bullet doesn't pass my water jug, box of rags test I don't use it.

This is the results I expect and if I don't get them I'll use a bullet that does give me good reliable expansion.

.223 Remington JSP shot fron a Kel Tec PLR
45ACP Speer Gold Dot. I think I shot it from a 3 inch Kimber.
PLRRemJSPand45GD.gif
 
lambertiana, I'd like to see your pics, that would be great, and thanks for the information on the .45. It's not surprising about the results you had with cloth and expansion.


BFD, I'd haul jugs for you if you can send me a bus ticket? ;)


M2, Nice pics and I think your reasoning is quite sound for a carry round.


I typically load up whichever 9mm HP is utterly reliable, available (which can be quite a limiting factor here in Bloomington IN) and not too pricey.

And I agree that bullet placement and penetration are key with regard to potentially effective incapacitation.
 
This is the Hornady Critical Defense 185 gr, fired from a G30 into wet newspaper covered with 2 layers cotton t-shirt and 2 layers jeans denim:
P7150567.jpg

On the right is a single round of 230 gr Gold Dot from the G30, they always look like this. On the left is a single Winchester PDX1 from the G30.

This is the Ranger T 230 gr +P from the G30, note the inconsistency
PA161112.jpg

This is standard pressure Ranger T 230 gr from a full size 1911, 5" barrel, good stuff here
PA161115.jpg

In this one, top row, l to r: Ranger T 230 gr from 1911, Taurus Copper from G30 (only half of them expanded, but from a 5" barrel they all expand beautifully), Critical Defense 185 gr from G30. Bottom row, l to r: Gold Dot 230 gr from G30, Gold Dot 230 gr short barrel from G30, Remington Golden Saber 230 gr from 1911, 5" barrel
P9181109.jpg
 
Thanks lambertiana, great work and pics. I'd love to be able to do some testing like this on my own with my 9mm but too cost prohibitive right now.

Again...nice job.
 
Thanks RG. I used to load my .38s with Nyclads. I liked your write up on the
.22 ammo.
 
I did a lot of Fackler Box testing years ago...have all the data and bullets, but not softcopy.
 
I save all my sportsmans guide, cheaper than dirt, and related magizines. I put them in a 5 gallon bucket and let water soak into them over night. I use that to do less-than-scientific penetration tests at give or take 10 feet. I have a near perfect 130 grain slug fired out of my GP100 retrieved from this type of test. For some reason its nice to just hold it and admire the perfectly symmetrical rifling grooves cut into it. I keep it on my desk at work.
 
I have tested .45 acp with a short barrel (3.75") S&W, using saturated news print behind 2 layers denim and 2 layers cotton Tee-shirt, the Speer Gold Dot expanded well, but Rem Golden Saber was inconsistent and Fed Hydrashok did not expand at all (all 230 gr).

I also tested .38 +P Speer Gold Dot 135 gr short barrel and Win PDX1 130 gr using a snub-nosed revolver, tests shown here, this time with 4 layers of denim.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=555992
 
Chumango, nice test results there but a question please. Why did you and a few others use multiple layers of denim? Especially 4? If you want a more realistic test, why not use just one? I see multiple testers using 3,4,or 5 layers of either shirt or denim jean material and have to ask why?
 
I used 4 layers of denim because I had an old pair of jeans handy and not a cotton Tee-shirt I wanted to destroy. I want multiple layers to represent in at least a crude fashion what would happen if the BG is wearing heavier clothes, as in winter. I figure if the bullets work with multiple layers they will work with fewer layers - the multiple layers is a worst-case scenario for expansion.

If I understand correctly, the FBI test protocol for one of its tests (heavy clothing) uses 4 layers of denim, though I'm not sure why that particular setup was chosen.
 
I tested the 9mm Hydra-Shok 147 grain in wet newsprint. Went in 12 inches average and expanded to .700 average. Left a nice channel in the paper.
 
multiple layers of denim? Especially 4?
Click to expand...
Because that's one folded-over or doubled-up pants leg?
Sounds like a simple solution to a problem* with no exact answer, to me.


* "how much easily-obtainable and casually destroyable cloth simulates a heavy winter coat?"
 
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