Your "quality" tolerance

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Galt

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Folks,

First, how many times would you return a (bought new in box) firearm to the manufacturer before giving up?

Second, what is proper recourse for a firearm that has two functional failures (broken parts, not ftf or fte) within 100 rounds of being taken out of the box? Is there a proper procedure for asking for a lemon to be replaced?


Thanks for any help or thoughts you might have.

G
 
Hi -

I began a thread a few months ago about a Auto-Ordnance M1 Carbine with a "fouled" barrel from the factory.

After some cleaning and some questions asked, I determined that the residue was Parkerizing which had entered the barrel.

Initially, the tech at Auto-Ordnance told me not to worry about it, but, upon refection, I decided to contact the VP of the company directly with a polite letter about my situation.

The VP responded in 6 minutes, and I was contacted by a Service Representative / technician who handled my case personally.

The barrel was replaced, the rifle was test-fired and returned to me.

If you believe that the firearm is defective, contact the company. Be polite, be objective, be polite, and ask for a supervisor (or higher) until you have explained to someone who wants you, a customer, to be satisfied.

Again, be polite.

I believe that I answered question #2.

gd
 
First, how many times would you return a (bought new in box) firearm to the manufacturer before giving up?
Click to expand...

Apparently my "Quality Tolerance" is very, very low! :uhoh: I tend to get rid of automatics even after getting them repaired if I lose faith in them. When it comes right down to it about anything I have ever owned be it a functioning issue or accuracy issue I get rid of sooner than later. :eek:
 
I would give any manufacturer one free pass as long as they fixed the problem no questions asked. Any gun can have a "lemon" but twice would be shame on me.
 
Without brand bashing here and now, suffice it to say I buy very carefully,

avoiding any brand names which come up repeatedly with QC problems.

Even if I got a weapon "fixed" I would be rather untrusting of it's performance from that point forward.
 
When given a lemon make lemonade a good gunsmith can fix any problem that a NOB firearm may have here is some of the few tips I can give you when buying firearms.
1. Give it a through inspection check for any imperfections and blemishes and fix them
2. Give it a good cleaning even in it's never been out of the box the firearm will still have grease residue from the assembly line and will still collect dust in the box
3. Take it to the range and give it a 100 round test shoot take notes of any problem that may occur, accuracy, reliability, and what-else you like and don't like.
 
as a Quality Professional I have no tolerance for poor quality, and worse listening to the manufacturer try and explain things away.
 
Twice

That's my tolerance. I'd send it on a round-trip back to the factory twice. If it wasn't a perfectly functional, reliable machine after that I'd take the loss and dump the gun.

I'd probably continue to buy guns from that manufacturer, but I'd avoid that particular model forevermore.
 
I work on firearms and first off, did you do a basic stripping of the gun and clean and oil?

Second depending on brand some new guns are tight and I would make no objections to even a cheap gun at 100 rds., at least 500 before I contact the manufacture, unless broken parts.

Also what ammo, 100 rds. of junk ammo vs. 100 rds. of mid level ammo can make a difference.

If broken parts and not operator error (shooting gun with packing grease build up or dry), then give them a chance, you're gonna lose money if you don't.

What type of firearm is it?
 
Partly depends on what I pay. But generally, for a brand new gun, one trip back to the factory. But, if the Customer Service folk are helpful, polite, etc, it could go back again if I believe they are really trying - and its their job as Customer Service to convince me they are trying. Being a QA guy myself, part of my analysis of the issue is just what the problem is.

In my experience, purchasing a rather high-dollar 1911, it came back from the factory with the following issues fixed, among others:
1. Chamber undersize
2. Extractor tension wrong
3. Feed ramp angle wrong (on an Al frame gun - this was a mess)
4. and more
Items 1 and 3 were inexcusable, and should never have left the factory. The gun still didn't run after a second visit. They refused to take it back - but my dealer did at full price. For him, I turned around and spend the same amount and more for another new gun he had. Turned out the manufacturer took the gun back from him a couple of months later.

Bottom line, I don't buy that brand any more, and more used guns than new.
 
Luckily I have not run into this problem, but I tend to be pretty determined about scraping things that don't work and making sure that they end up completely destroyed, as opposed to just broken. If I paid the money for it I'll get my moneys worth out even if it just becomes an expensive club or punching bag.

I say, send it back to them once, if they don't fix it right, then you've got yourself a nice club. I'll give 'em a second chance if they are covering all of the shipping charges and it doesn't cost me anything.
 
Details...

Great responses, all. Thanks.

Since you ask:

Walther PPS .40 S&W. Bought new in November after contemplating and saving up for quite a while.

During first range session, the slide stop lever failed (read that: The metal hook to the spring inside the handgun frame actually broke) at approximately round 30 firing Federal FMJ.

Sent to S&W and had it fixed in December. They were great, fast, responsive, and supportive.

Hit the range today, made it to round 43 in today's session and the slide stop spring jumped out of its position. Doesn't look like the lever broke this time, but the lever is unsprung and catches on each shot.

I'm going to contact Walther usa (S&W) on Monday and go through another fix cycle; but suffice it to say I'm very disappointed. It's a CC handgun that I won't trust now. I've never owned a gun of any type that broke twice within 100 shots.

Sad thing is, I actually like shooting the thing; and it has otherwise not failed to cycle (how's that for a sympathetic view?).

Issue I have is this: I'm not sure I'd want to sell it to someone if I don't trust it...Shouldn't Walther eat the lemon?

G
 
Certainly Walther should eat the lemon.:eek:

They won't.:mad:

I'm at least very confident, statistically speaking, that they will not eat the lemon. Just like Brand K in my case, they don't want folks expecting an exchange, refund, or in many cases a repair. You are one in a long line of Customers lined up to buy a gun - if you go away, they'll simply sell to someone else. Crappy way of doing business (from a Customer perspective), but that's the way it is. And to cut them a leetle bitty bit of slack, the firearms transfer headaches probably contribute some to their reluctance.
 
Aww man, I just bought a P-22 and am waiting for the transfer to be ok'd by my local LE, in the meantime I've heard some horror stories about the type and Walther customer service, you're not giving me much hope. :uhoh:

On topic though, I'd give them twice, provided I got a helpful attitude from the their customer service folks.
 
RimfireChris said:
Aww man, I just bought a P-22 and am waiting for the transfer to be ok'd by my local LE, in the meantime I've heard some horror stories about the type and Walther customer service, you're not giving me much hope.

---------------

Put your mind at ease, you've just bought a terrific little gun. I've owned mine for over 4 years now and have put about 4,000 rounds thru it without issue. It's fun, reliable and accurate as can be. What more could one ask?

Where are you from, that the local LE gets involved in your gun purchases?
 
I've only had to send two guns back for service. One was a Ruger P345 that they fixed, and paid shipping both ways, that now functions like it's supposed to. The other was an old Dan Wesson .357 that had chambers so rough that any charge approaching normal for a .357 required fired cases to be pounded out of them. It was only slightly better when they returned it. I sold the thing, and now have two Ruger .357's that have chambers as smooth as a baby's behind and eject cases from hot loads with ease.
 
I did it once.

After that, I got rid of it.

It wouldn't have been such an issue, but it was a revolver that wouldn't rotate the cylinder on a double-action pull. No thanks, I didn't buy an SA revolver. :)
 
The Real Wyatt-I'm in WA. I don't have a CHL here, so when you buy a pistol, in addition to the regular federal from for a long gun, there's what's called a pistol transfer form, I think that's the name or pretty close. They send it to your county LEA, the come back with an ok, you're not "on the books" so to speak and you're good. Having a CHL is supposed to speed up the process, so that's gonna be my birthday present next week.

I'd have waited, but in addition to the gift card my in-laws gave me, I also have several coupons that expire pretty soon, so I went ahead and bought it hoping it'll go through in time for me to use them. We'll see.

And thanks for the encouragement. I looked at several different pistols when I was up there, this was the only one that really lit my fire that day. I'm can't wait to get her out to the range. :D
 
I'll give them 2 shots, just because I'm more patient in my later years. After 2 trips things would get a little more intense. In your case, it seems as though they gave it a good shot. let them have at it again. S&W seems to have a good rep. for C.S.
 
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