youre homemade guns

[crazybushman]

hi i recently started building the 32/380 machine gun from vol 11 of pa lutys ebooks its intructions are crystal but i was just wondering wat other guns people have made and would appreciate it if people would upload photos and info of there creations to this thread plus im still trying to find the cheapest ammo between 32 and 9mm eg 38,380,380apc to convert this gun im making to. thanks

 

[Grunt Medic TXARNG]

Come over to the Weapons Guild website - the forum motto is 'builders helping builders, and they mean it!

 

[burrhead]

Assuming you live in the US, you do know it’s very illegal to build a machinegun without a manufacturing license don’t you?

 

[1911Tuner]

Assuming you live in the US, you do know it’s very illegal to build a machinegun without a manufacturing license don’t you?

Not if you're building it for your own use. If it's capable of full automatic fire, you only have to jump through the hoops for an NFA/Class 3 weapon in order to make it legal for you to possess. As with any cartridge arm, it also requires a permanent serial number, and that number goes into the BATFE's data bank.

We'll assume that the bushman has gone through the legal process unless and until he notifies us otherwise.

 

[ldsgeek]

Actually, you are wrong on 2 counts. First, making a full auto without proper licensing will land you a stay with the feds, as private citizens we are prohibited form owning anything full auto made after 1986. Second, any legal firearm you for your own use make does not need a serial number, however any tax stamps required have to be acquired and maintained (SBR, suppressor, etc.), nor do they need a serial if you later sell them. If you are making them to sell you need to get the proper FFL, but making for your own use does not.

 

[BBBBill]

May 19, 1986 was the date that the law signed by Reagan cut off all machine gun manufacturing for civilian legal sale/possesion. Anything manufactured prior to that date and already in the civilian eligible market stream can still be bought/sold/possessed by civilians. No machine gun manufactured by anyone after that date may be bought/sold/possessed by civilians.

 

[1911Tuner]

I was under the impression that an individual could make a FA weapon...one time for his own use...even after the cutoff date, and that it would not be transferable. In order to get rid of it, it had to be destroyed by cutting through the receiver with a torch and turned in to any ATF office. Maybe I misunderstood.

And, back in the days when I had access to a fully equipped machine shop, I entertained the idea of using the blueprints to make myself a 1911 pistol. I spoke with an ATF agent with whom I was well aquainted, and he told me that as long as it had an identifying mark...a number or even my own initials...that I was good to go. Makes sense, because getting caught with a gun without a serial number can bring on some serious legal headaches, even though I know that there are certain guns that had no serial numbers and are exempt. That was 30 years ago, so maybe things have changed.

 

[BBBBill]

Edit because it double posted 20 minutes later! Weird!

You may build anything but a machine gun. They were the only thing affected by the passage of that law.

 

[bigfatdave]

Hey i have an idea, let's all argue about machinegun laws instead of answering the op's question!

 

[Hanzo581]

Yes, let's not try to keep the guy out of prison, lets answer his question!

 

[Geneseo1911]

Hey i have an idea, let's all argue about machinegun laws instead of answering the op's question!

1) That didn't answer the question either.
2)THR does not condone doing anything illegal, which despite Tuner's somewhat out-of-date assertion to the contrary, this is
3)I think we'd all like to see this person not go to federal PMITA prison (to borrow from "Office Space").
4)I think the mods should consider editing Tuner's post and again advising the OP on the seriousness of the project he says he is working on.

That said, we are also making the assumption that the OP is subject to US law, and not a 07 FFL. Until he tells us one way or the other that he is aware of and within the law, I don't think he will will get much response.

 

[Geneseo1911]

Okay, after viewing some of the OP's other posts, it appears that he resides in New Zealand.

I have no idea what NZ law is, hopefully he will enlighten us. My understanding is that they are much better off than OZ. My apologies for making assumptions; you might want to put your location in your profile to prevent the confusion you saw here. That said, I have never scratch built a gun, only modified and repaired them, so I'll bow out and watch this thread in case anything cool does pop up.

BTW-I checked out the forum suggested by Grunt Medic, and it is very cool. I think you'll find what you're after there. Lots of scratch built projects.

 

[shibbykins]

i also say check out weapons guild. it is a VERY good resource for the home builder community as a whole.

 

[BBBBill]

Just remember when you answer a thread, you are answering for everyone who might have read the OP and/or was having similar thoughts. It behooves us to answer with accurate information and cautions against doing something illegal. I love Class 3 stuff as much as anyone, but I ain't going to jail for doing something stupid and I won't encourage anyone else to do so either.

 

[earlthegoat2]

So has anyone actually made any??

 

[Grunt Medic TXARNG]

@ earl - not sure who you're asking; so far my gunsmithing has been pretty basic; installing stocks and sights, modifying a 10/22 to a one handed bolt release, installing scopes, and similar. My next project is building up a 7.62 AR from a stripped receiver - then I'll be building fixed and folding stock AKMs from kits I have. MUCH later, I'll be building up an British made G3 (yep!) from a kit I have, as well. I have a PL-85 US made version of the SA-80 in kit form I should be seeing in the next few weeks - but I will probably pay to have that one assembled to make it easier to sell if I choose to.

 

[1911Tuner]

Just remember when you answer a thread, you are answering for everyone who might have read the OP and/or was having similar thoughts.

Bingo.

We have to address legal issues on threads like this. When dealing with the ATF on NFA weapons...if you're not 100% right, you're 100% wrong. One of THR's mission statements is that we donot advocate or support doing anything illegal, nor can we imply the same by simply answering the question.

It's been a long time since I was involved with Class 3 stuff...though ownership and part-time hours at a Class 3 dealer...so I'm not up to date on some of the new rulings, which have apparently changed over the course a qurter century...but the points remain.

Be absolutely sure that what you're doing or planning to do won't give you the opportunity to take an extended expense-paid vacation at Club Fed. It's a high price to pay for a toy.

 

[jmorris]

You can build NFA items on a form 1 (suppressors, short barreled shotguns and rifles, destructive devices and AOW's) but no new machine guns after May 19, 1986 without proper FFL and class II SOT.


I have built a lot of guns from parts but my 50 BMG is the only one I built all of the parts myself (sears, trigger, springs...) lots of hours.

 

[jmorris]

No machine guns here but you can built hand cranked gattlings.

 

[Quoheleth]

jmorris --- the machinist's hammer laying there...is that your extractor

Seriously - nice job. I commend you on your skills.

Q

 

[Carl N. Brown]

Now, until crazybushman identifies as being in a jurisdiction that allows civilian manufacture of machine guns, we will discuss legalities.
OK, the poster apparently is in New Zealand.

If I read correctly, a Form 1 to make a machinegun can be approved after May 19, 1986 with a proper Federal Firearms License and class II Special Occupational Taxpayer staus, Title II manufacturers' or Class III dealers' demonstration samples, the only new machine guns outside military or law enforcement, and not for an ordinary citizen on Form 1 make and register or Form 4 transfer registration.

How many crimes with registered machineguns were committed 1934-1986 with legally registered machine guns to justify the freeze on new civilian registrations (Form 4 transfer) and ban on new civilian machinegun builds (Form 1 make and register) by the 19 May 1986 Hughes Amendment? One? By a corrupt police officer with access to other weapons anyway?

Given a strict regulation of civilian machine guns that appeared to be working, Hughes went for a ban. We should never forget. With a strict regulation, the antis went for a ban as soon as possible, with no real justification.

 

[jmorris]

jmorris --- the machinist's hammer laying there...is that your extractor

No, the bolt face is machined like a shellholder, that was just a handy place to put it after every shot. You had to drive down to the target every shot on the 4 wheeler and hammer the supports for the 3 foot X3 foot X 1" thick steel plate back into the ground.

Here are some chunks we cut out of the big plate for conversation.

 

[Sam1911]

If I read correctly, a Form 1 to make a machinegun can be approved after May 19, 1986 with a proper Federal Firearms License and class II Special Occupational Taxpayer staus, Title II manufacturers' or Class III dealers' demonstration samples,

Actually, an SOT2 Manufacturer doesn't file a Form 1 to make a weapon. They make their weapons and then file a Form 2 letting the ATF know what they've made.

Since May 1986 the registry for new machine guns has been CLOSED, period. That means, unless the receiver of the gun you want to put together was registered as a transferrable Title II machine gun prior to that date, the ATF will not approve a Form 1 to make and register.

An SOT2 manufacturer can build them as he/she pleases for testing, research, and demonstration, but those "Post 86 Dealer Samples" can only be sold to other SOT2s, SOT3 Dealers (with a police department demonstration letter for that gun), or the mil/gov.

This should clear up US law on the matter.

I have no idea what New Zealand law says. Perhaps the OP can enlighten us on that?

 

[crazybushman]

hi sorry

hi sorry i gave up on this thread for a few days waiting for people to come away from the legal side of this but i will clear the new zealand laws up.

you need a standard gun licence to own bolt actions [can be pistol grip],semi autos[have to be rifle stock and less than 8shots],pump actions[can have pistol grip,semi aoto,and have a mag of any amount]and any other type of action apart from full auto [you need a speacial endorsement to own full autos but once this licence is obtained you can buy any thing from uzi to anti air craft cannons

 

[Sam1911]

Thank you.

I don't think you'll find too many folks here who have built what you're building, because of our laws on the subject.

There are some forums devoted to full-auto weapons, and some devoted to firearms building that might have some SOT2-licensed makers who've tried it and could talk you through it.

If any of our members have done this in their garage (so to speak), they really REALLY aught not talk about it. Getting caught in the US with an unregistered machine gun could mean 10 years in federal prison and up to $250,000USD in fines.