Zumbo, Take 2

[itsa pain]

if I was a kid bought my first gun joined this site and someone told me the site is run by the BATF I would not argue one bit

 

[CharlieBT]

Taliv, Post 89, I got kind of lost. I guess channeling agnostics' hypothetical reactions to discussions here may serve some political benefit. I am not entirely persuaded of that yet. As I've said, your house, your rules. My house, not so much. Metcalf, Guns and Ammo and advertisers there can opine away without me or my cash.

 

[taliv]

charlie, I hate to disagree again with you, but it's 'our house' and my status as a mod doesn't make my opinion worth any more or less than yours. i appreciate the discussion.

 

[CharlieBT]

Madcap, your 99 lays out the dilemma pretty well.

All I can say is the mandatory gun per household law here was not obtained by sweet talking opponents or agnostics at debates or on the Internet. I know you are speaking on federal legal and political issues, but I offer our little slice of heaven as food for thought for y'all. Ethos, pathos, logos and the NRA win a lot of debates.

You are right though, the value of my opinion won't buy anyone even a cup of joe.

I found Metcalf's column handy in the water closet, too.

 

[itsa pain]

Gentlemen we have met the enemy and he is us

 

[Glocktogo]

And it begins:

http://news.yahoo.com/guns-ammo-editorial-controversy-203042117.html

But gun control advocates are cheering Guns & Ammo's decision to publish the column. The Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence shared a link to a story about Metcalf's column on its Facebook page.

Congratulations Dick, you're now a poster boy for The Brady Bunch.

 

[Warp]

When handgun control inc cheers you...you dun goofed.

 

[SilentStalker]

Just out of curiosity why have we not ever done anything like the Swiss do? While I don't agree with getting rid of our military I do like their idea of having a people's militia, much the way our forefather's probably intended. These militia men or women in Switzerland actually undergo military training, including weapons training. I am not sure if it is required of their people to do this but if we did something like this here maybe we make it voluntary. That way they have had their training and we can get over all of this nonsense about not being trained enough to own such a firearm. All of the weapons of this militia are kept at home. In fact, Switzerland supposedly has some of the highest gun ownership rates in the world and its no doubt a result of an active militia unit. I believe that the gov there pays for all of this and they have one mandatory training/competition between all members once a year or something. The downside to following the Swiss example is that they are pretty strict on a lot of things because while one can keep their weapon at home the ammo is either stored somewhere else and only given out in an emergency or select few people can have the weapon and ammo at home but it must be someone who actively serves to protect airports and such things like that. At any rate I don't see why we could not have something like that but with a little more freedom. Obviously, letting whoever passed the training keep their weapons and ammo at home while being able to continue shooting/training at their leisure. Just a thought.

 

[itsa pain]

Really? Well it's a long LOSING game if the last 20 years tell the tale. They've had a more or less unbroken string of lost ground since their high water mark with the 1994 AWB (or arguably back in 1968, even!). The last year has shown that in the moment of the greatest possible advantage they've had in a decade or probably more, they still couldn't capitalize on that and turn it into action, outside of gains in three states (one of which is crumbling as we speak).

Honestly, I'm THRILLED with the way the long game is playing out. At this rate we'll be repealing the NFA in 2030!

yes and most of us will be dead lol

 

[itsa pain]

Sam, thanks.

My skin is thicker than my poorly articulated points may suggest. I, like you and Taliv, have devoted much to RKBA. We share the same goal of preserving it for our children and generations who may follow. Within this family, we recognize a range of political views. Nevertheless, as you noted previously, the results have been impressive since the Clinton era. Our current circumstances remain difficult, but we read of successes across the country daily. We continue to confront all issues head on.

Now, as servants are want to do, we sometimes debate among one another who's ideas are better. Fundamentalists in our house have in my view a large claim to the successes we've seen and will see. They have a place here, and play an important role, and deserve support and respect

Too, those who can see shades of gray, who can empathize with how the world may perceive, negatively, views from the base also have an important place and role here and in the battle.

We as a family waste some resource, time and third party credibility -- perhaps -- airing
dirty family laundry here or elsewhere. Fud, nut job, whatever -- are the labels that divide us, not unite us, in purpose. You get all that, I know.

Here's a last thought. In the family, it is quite easy for offense to arise when anyone advances
their brand of RBKA by figuratively standing on the shoulders of other family members and wetting on them. Metcalf did that. He will get strong response -- not to whether we need training (equal to food and water, IMO) -- to his tactic marginalizing fundamentalist RKBA. It is easy to perceive him as an apostate or traitor. Indeed, at the end of the day, our enemies and Metcalf hold hands in advancing more government regulation between citizens and firearm ownership, possession and use.

As I said earlier, that's what the OP seemed to focus on, linking Metcalf to my pal Jim Zumbo.

If this were a thread on whether we think it is good for firearms owners to get training, I suspect we'd see unanimous support. If we focused on self defense, preached the doctrine and experiences of enlightened teachers, like Jeff Cooper, Mas Ayoob and others, we would again all likely agree. In the last resort, when our pulse rates climb past 160, when tunnel vision presents and our motor skills diminish to 30 or 40 percent of their norm, we will default to our level of training. If it was a single two day course over 16 hours, with only 300 rounds fired from concealed draw to target, the reality is firearms consumers may not survive a gun fight with a pair sporting half a dozen tear drop tattoos.

Buying a pistol does not make you a wise, dependable civilian shooter any more than buying a guitar makes you a musician, according to the Colonel. He's right. And there are plenty of stories and metrics to back this up. That would be a high road discussion on the why's of training, as opposed to low road criticism of a large if not majority segment of the RKBA family.

cooper lived a long time fired millions of rounds getting ready for a gunfight that never happened

 

[Robert]

G&A response can been seen here:
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=733956