2A fence sitters.

[Officers'Wife]

In my experience, once people react on an emotional level it is very very hard to get them to reason and logic. And generally facts to the contrary often reinforce the emotional response. Consider this example, you have a terminally ill patient on life support begging you to let them die. But the wife/husband/sibling/child simply repeats "I can't stand to lose him/her." You can argue quality of life until the cows come home but it will only make the relative realize they have a life or death decision and their fear of death intensifies.

With firearms, especially a mother, we imagine it was our child at Beslan, Sandy Hook or Columbine. It was our child that looked down the barrel of that weapon and felt the pain of their precious body being insulted by bullets. It's instinctual, you are not going to defuse that by pointing out that the odds against your child being in that situation are astronomical because in your mind and in your heart you have 'seen' it happen. Being told it wasn't the gun after being called a 'stupid cow' is going to set it in stone.

What needs to be done is to appeal on that emotional level, my God, when that shooter came in our kid's teachers had no way to protect them because our laws ... filled in the blank... What if he (the maniac) had had gasoline bombs too, our teachers would have been helpless to stop them. etc.

Emotion appeals to emotion. The trick is to be able to turn the emotions around.

 

[hso]

Very true, but we can't police every site and every poster any more than the activist anti can blot out the most absurd and destructive poster to their cause.

We still need to reach out to the middle field and acknowledge that the poseurs and postureres will always be present in the crowd.

 

[mljdeckard]

The other night I went to a going away party for a lifelong friend who made a surprising career move. We have been friends, but in the last several years she has been so liberal she leans to the left when she walks down the street. We have had some very heated arguments over facebook, and eventually we had to call a truce and avoid some subjects. But I wanted to see her off, and she was holding a raffle. She asked me if I could donate anything to the raffle, and I said I would give a free concealed carry class for two. So I showed up, expecting to see some very granola people, I only knew a few of them. The hosts won that prize, and they told me they already have their permits, but they have friends who would like the classes, and I started a few conversations with others who are also interested.

I don't have to get them to become libertarians. I just have to get them to believe that guns aren't evil.

 

[hso]

I don't have to get them to become libertarians. I just have to get them to believe that guns aren't evil.


Yes!

 

[xwingband]

That's one side for sure... many are scared and guns are evil. Guns are mechanical and make loud noises. They are a scary thing to many.

The other I feel is related to the flight of fight reflex. The "Moms" which we've largely lost, stick to flight. As stated before they picture their child being in one of these school shootings and react emotionally in regards to the legislation. To them the idea of protecting their child in the face of an attacker is not it. They want to run and having a gun does no good.

To that education is probably best. Get them to shoot and understand being proficient enough to stop an attack is possible and they might change. They are also very hard to get out shooting though...

 

[Officers'Wife]

That's one side for sure... many are scared and guns are evil. Guns are mechanical and make loud noises. They are a scary thing to many.

The other I feel is related to the flight of fight reflex. The "Moms" which we've largely lost, stick to flight. As stated before they picture their child being in one of these school shootings and react emotionally in regards to the legislation. To them the idea of protecting their child in the face of an attacker is not it. They want to run and having a gun does no good.

To that education is probably best. Get them to shoot and understand being proficient enough to stop an attack is possible and they might change. They are also very hard to get out shooting though...

There are some Moms out that that have been helpless as they were pushed down on a pile of stinking garbage and had unspeakable violence committed on them. If presented to those Moms as tools for safety and security you are going to go a long way forward. Present it by bragging of the fights you have been in and you will go a long way backward. I've managed to soften my Illinois Democrat anti-gun in laws on the idea of guns as tools simply with molasses cured venison hams on the dinner table. Enough so my mother in law not only 'allows' a black powder rifle in her house but visits with me while Dave and Dad in law are out on the deer stands. Last season she even asked if sis in law could make her a leather clutch purse like mine out of one of the hides.

As an aside, I remember when Dave talked Dad in law into some range time with his Browning. Dad in law fired one magazine, put the weapon on the bench and commented it wasn't as easy as it looked on TV.

Trying to simplify the tactics to a few words is pointless if not impossible. I guess it comes down to the old cattle country saying- wearing a big belt buckle don't make you a rodeo star, a pair of spurs don't make you a cowboy and being 21 don't make you a man. Somehow you need to include the phrase having a pistol in your hand don't make you a murderer.

 

[hso]

I teach women to shoot and I've never had one not bring another after they've learned how to protect themselves and their families with a firearm.

The idea that we've somehow "lost" moms is absurd. If you don't reach out to anyone and approach them in terms they respect then you're not going to have much luck getting them to change their minds.

 

[Walkalong]

I have taken four new to guns women to the range in the last couple of years. I keep it serious, simple, and safe. No BS stories, just cold hard facts about the responsibly of owning and using a gun. I explain the practice needed and the mind set needed to use a gun effectively, with no rosie stories where the good person can't lose.

We can and must reach people, and to think otherwise is sure defeat.

 

[Tommygunn]

I have heard from various sources that more women than ever are getting into shooting. Yes, there are the liberal women (and others) who are scared of guns and think they should be banned but they are not representative of ALL women.

Hey, my own mother was outshooting a Alabama county sheriff in the early 1950s -- before I was born -- and the painful thing about THAT was she used the sheriff's own revolver to do it!!

 

[Trunk Monkey]

Redacted

Unfortunately the tools do you no good with out the will to use them and training to use them

 

[Trunk Monkey]

Hey, my own mother was outshooting a Alabama county sheriff in the early 1950s -- before I was born -- and the painful thing about THAT was she used the sheriff's own revolver to do it!!

My mom was on her Sr. High rifle team

 

[hso]

Unfortunately the tools do you no good with out the will to use them and training to use them

Considering that far more people use a firearm to stop a crime without every having to shoot the person threatening them this point is debatable, BUT for this discussion, the point that we need to reach out to the people who can help protect all our rights, it isn't even relevant that they ever own a gun or fire one or receive any training in the use of a gun. What is relevant is that they don't buy into the lies and propaganda and that they think that any one of us should have the right to own and use them and not to have that right denied to them or us.

 

[Tommygunn]

My mom was on her Sr. High rifle team

Good on her!
I suppose I ought to have mentioned my mother taught riflery courses in summer camp during her college years so she got plenty of experience with shooting. She hadn't handled revolvers before outshooting that sheriff but she knew what a "sight picture" was!
Hey, our mothers and grammas were living waaaaaay before we were.

I suppose someone's gonna pipe in now and say their greatgreatgreat gramma was Annie Oakley!

 

[jaytex1969]

It seems to me that somehow, we need to find a way to win over some real for sure hard core lefties to RKBA.

My beliefs are all over the political map.

For instance, I strongly support RKBA matters, but I also see the need to prevent "unfettered free market interests" from destroying our drinking water and air quality.

I'm not trying to get political or off topic, but this board (and most gun boards) are quite often offensive and unfriendly towards people who are pro-gun, but not in lockstep with the whole partisan agenda.

THR does a much better job than most. Thank you.

 

[YaDaddy]

I used to be a fence sitter and then saw a couple of things coming from the Bush administration that made me realize why the founders did what they did. Decided I would buy every gun and all the ammo I could possibly afford, then positively expose every person that would let me to the joys and importance of firearms ownership.

I am nothing less than a 2A evangelist, now.

Those fence sitters are the most fertile ground for increasing 2A support.

 

[goon]

If it is the thread I participated in, I am glad to have an opportunity to clarify the point I am trying to make. I do believe that there is a large number of folks that simply do not have any opinion on issues surrounding RKBA, and I believe a strong, vocal, principled stance is the only way to reach them.

My experience is that strong, principled, gentle, nuanced stances are better.
If you yell and howl, you look like an extremist.
If you're calm and offer intelligent discussion, you might just get them to try a 10/22 out. And once that happens, the 10/22 will convert them for you.

 

[xxjumbojimboxx]

Booya!

 

[Dean1818]

In another thread I mentioned the possibility of 2A fence sitters. That thread was closed because it became immature and pointless(not involving this topic). But I think that this needs to be brought up. It seems that there are people in this community who think the American people don't tend to sit on the fence about this issue. And they seemed to back it up with "The people I know..." and so on and so forth. Well... I'd like to assign a homework project for you guys... Because I know the fence sitters are everywhere. If you get the chance to meet someone new, and they don't really have a stance on gun ownership. DO US ALL A FAVOR. take that person to the range with you and let them shoot your guns. Do so everytime you get the chance. One, So you can get one step closer to having told the truth as you've almost certainly turned a fence sitter into a pro 2A or at least leaning that way. And 2 it simply helps the cause.



THANKS! KEEP SHOOTING!

Great point

I try to get non shooters and fence sitters to the range as much as possible

 

[jerkface11]

But it's far more of a problem for the antis than for the supporters of the RTKBA. Very few people have a vested interest in banning guns.

The problem being fence sitters vote for anti gun politicians because they like their stance on some other issue.

 

[hso]

Jerkface,

That's not a problem per se. Since very few people cast their vote based on just one issue it is an opportunity for us to make sure that we have pro 2A candidates that have political positions that are compatible with those voters.

 

[Sol]

Well to solve the problem, you first have to identify the problem.

What is the demograph of the fencesitter?

Here is my observations from a sampling of people in my area who would qualify:
18-30 years old.
College graduate or attending
Proffesional career or pending
Urban or suburbanite
No kids
Not married
Rent a home or apt.
NON VOTER.

So the problem with fence sitters is that they don't vote, because whether one chooses to be an anti or a pro they already made a decision and are no longer fence sitters. Only voting can really enforce ones positions.

So the real underlying issue is trying either to convert antis or create a new pro....,and get them to vote.

Truth be told is that you can be the most loud mouthed blathering anti gun schmoe in the room but without a vote you're a mute, the only danger is that you may be persuasive enough to turn someone that votes into an anti.

 

[Officers'Wife]

Well to solve the problem, you first have to identify the problem.

What is the demograph of the fencesitter?

Here is my observations from a sampling of people in my area who would qualify:
18-30 years old.
College graduate or attending
Proffesional career or pending
Urban or suburbanite
No kids
Not married
Rent a home or apt.
NON VOTER.

So the problem with fence sitters is that they don't vote, because whether one chooses to be an anti or a pro they already made a decision and are no longer fence sitters. Only voting can really enforce ones positions.

So the real underlying issue is trying either to convert antis or create a new pro....,and get them to vote.

Truth be told is that you can be the most loud mouthed blathering anti gun schmoe in the room but without a vote you're a mute, the only danger is that you may be persuasive enough to turn someone that votes into an anti.

OK, you have a point...

Problem is, many in the age group you mention have taken the attitude why bother to vote. One side is going to tax you out of all you have and the other side is only going to let you use anything you have in very narrowly defined ways.

The Democrats are going to control you economically, the Republicans through laws. Either way you are being controlled and more and more it seems like the vote doesn't matter because the elected don't pay any attention to the will of the people.

 

[Sol]

^Somewhere in an alternate reality there is a strong 3rd party libertarian group that actually stands a chance of being elected.

 

[Officers'Wife]

*sigh*

Sorry, but Cinderella burned Prince Charming's breakfast and he left her for the waitress at the local restaurant. Even Plato admitted that the problem with ideal planes was they just plain didn't exist.

 

[Queen_of_Thunder]

Very true, but we can't police every site and every poster any more than the activist anti can blot out the most absurd and destructive poster to their cause.

We still need to reach out to the middle field and acknowledge that the poseurs and postureres will always be present in the crowd.

Taking HSO's post a step further.


You do that one person at a time because there is no quick fix.



So for all of you folks out there you better start getting your non firearm owning friends involved. You too need to be involved in the political process, vote which should be a no brainer but its not,getting others into the hobby or supporting others who are doing it. Get off your backside and get involved or your use of firearms will be severely restricted or you will lose them.